Reading Silverliner IV doors

I heard that the Reading Silverliner IVs weren't delivered with full train automatic doors. Why was this? Did the Reading side have any high level platforms before the tunnel? And why were the center doors never installed?

I don't know about your other 2 questions. As for high level platforms, the only 2 I can remember on the old Reading side were Norristown Elm St and Warminster

jackintosh11 wrote:I heard that the Reading Silverliner IVs weren't delivered with full train automatic doors. Why was this? Did the Reading side have any high level platforms before the tunnel? And why were the center doors never installed?

Perhaps the Reading RR didn't want to dump lots of money into making their railcars good. They went bankrupt in 1971 and then finally went belly up in 1976. They'd probably try to make the simplest railcar, while pleasing passengers at the same time.

Does anyone know when the center doors were installed on the Reading cars because I'm about to doll up a Silverliner IV model (With a center door) into reading paint and I want it to look factually correct/realistic.

tjensen wrote:

jackintosh11 wrote:I heard that the Reading Silverliner IVs weren't delivered with full train automatic doors. Why was this? Did the Reading side have any high level platforms before the tunnel? And why were the center doors never installed?

Perhaps the Reading RR didn't want to dump lots of money into making their railcars good. They went bankrupt in 1971 and then finally went belly up in 1976. They'd probably try to make the simplest railcar, while pleasing passengers at the same time.

Does anyone know when the center doors were installed on the Reading cars because I'm about to doll up a Silverliner IV model (With a center door) into reading paint and I want it to look factually correct/realistic.

The center doors were never installed by either the Reading or the Penn Central (or Septa for that matter) but, are you referring to the door "plugs" in the center to allow for future conversion to
center door operation? To my knowledge, the door plugs came from the factory for the entire order when built. As for the PRR side, they mostly had low level platforms as well as the Reading, with a few exceptions.

Edit: You may be confusing the Silverliner 4 with the Jersey Arrow 2. The Arrow 2's, which are similar to the S4's, were delivered with the center doors from the factory.

tjensen wrote:

jackintosh11 wrote:I heard that the Reading Silverliner IVs weren't delivered with full train automatic doors. Why was this? Did the Reading side have any high level platforms before the tunnel? And why were the center doors never installed?

Perhaps the Reading RR didn't want to dump lots of money into making their railcars good. They went bankrupt in 1971 and then finally went belly up in 1976. They'd probably try to make the simplest railcar, while pleasing passengers at the same time.

Does anyone know when the center doors were installed on the Reading cars because I'm about to doll up a Silverliner IV model (With a center door) into reading paint and I want it to look factually correct/realistic.

A better way of putting it might be to say that the Reading was frugal and didn't want to WASTE money on something that offered a very minimal return on investment. However, IIRC, wasn't the City of Philadelphia actually the owner of these cars? In addition, compared to the overall cost of the cars, one would have to believe that the cost of trainlining the doors would be very minimal as all of the control and operating components would obviously have been required either way.

I think that SEPTA actually owned the cars, and they had the railroads run it. And because I've heard of an accident involving Silverliners, MP54s, and Blueliners on the media/west chester in 1979, were the cars run on either side?

Everyone: I am one that always found the differences between the PC and RDG Silverliner 4s
interesting...Both railroads asked for and got features on these cars such as trainlined doors
on the PC cars and the "cowcatchers" on the RDG car version...

Pat Boylan is right about the first high level platforms on the RDG commuter routes...
Warminster opened in 1974 and Elm Street-Norristown in I believe 1978...Without more high
level platforms was just not a need for the RDG S4 version to have any trainline doors...
As we all know S4 cars were built with the provision to have center doors which was not used and at this point they more then likely never will...

We all must remember that it was SEPTA who was funding these cars and not the PC and RDG
that time - both railroads were financially troubled and/or bankrupt and needed the subsidy
from local governments to keep these trains running back then...The two railroads asked for
and got features on both S4 car versions tailored for their needs...The ownership of the S4
cars were divided I believe evenly between SEPTA itself and the City of Philadelphia's
Department of Public Property...many cars still have the owner designated on a small plaque
that is below the window on the interior end door...

The NJDOT A2 car was designed and built by GE for the two PC electrified commuter routes
at the same time - mid 70s - as the S4's were noting their similarities...The A2's were for what
would become the Northeast Corridor Line (NYP-TRE) and the NJCL electrified portion to
South Amboy...If anyone knows if any A2 pairs were ever used on the Princeton Branch
"Dinky" from 1982 on back before NJTRO was created let us know...

What truly continues to amaze me is how much use SEPTA has gotten from the S4 fleet noting
that the original order of 130 PC cars and the RDG singles are turning forty this year and that
the Arrow 2 cars are long since gone...rebuilding these cars has turned out to be the right
decision for SEPTA but we all know nothing lasts forever and it still takes getting used to
an extent not having the S2 and S3 around any more remembering how long they were in
service...Will SEPTA be able to get the funding needed for a 200 or so car S6 order which
would be eventually needed to replace the S4 cars?

MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone: I am one that always found the differences between the PC and RDG Silverliner 4s
interesting...Both railroads asked for and got features on these cars such as trainlined doors
on the PC cars and the "cowcatchers" on the RDG car version...

Pat Boylan is right about the first high level platforms on the RDG commuter routes...
Warminster opened in 1974 and Elm Street-Norristown in I believe 1978...Without more high
level platforms was just not a need for the RDG S4 version to have any trainline doors...
As we all know S4 cars were built with the provision to have center doors which was not used and at this point they more then likely never will...

We all must remember that it was SEPTA who was funding these cars and not the PC and RDG
that time - both railroads were financially troubled and/or bankrupt and needed the subsidy
from local governments to keep these trains running back then...The two railroads asked for
and got features on both S4 car versions tailored for their needs...The ownership of the S4
cars were divided I believe evenly between SEPTA itself and the City of Philadelphia's
Department of Public Property...many cars still have the owner designated on a small plaque
that is below the window on the interior end door...

The NJDOT A2 car was designed and built by GE for the two PC electrified commuter routes
at the same time - mid 70s - as the S4's were noting their similarities...The A2's were for what
would become the Northeast Corridor Line (NYP-TRE) and the NJCL electrified portion to
South Amboy...If anyone knows if any A2 pairs were ever used on the Princeton Branch
"Dinky" from 1982 on back before NJTRO was created let us know...

What truly continues to amaze me is how much use SEPTA has gotten from the S4 fleet noting
that the original order of 130 PC cars and the RDG singles are turning forty this year and that
the Arrow 2 cars are long since gone...rebuilding these cars has turned out to be the right
decision for SEPTA but we all know nothing lasts forever and it still takes getting used to
an extent not having the S2 and S3 around any more remembering how long they were in
service...Will SEPTA be able to get the funding needed for a 200 or so car S6 order which
would be eventually needed to replace the S4 cars?

MACTRAXX

I'd love to see those Silverliner IVs last another 20 yrs. They're the last nice-looking cars in SEPTA's regional fleet. If the Silverliner IIs could last another 9 and then be retired, then the IVs have a good chance at running away with the title of oldest continuously operated train car in the USA (Assuming the last of the 60s and 70s NYC subway cars are eliminated by 2023). The Comet IBs in california stand in the way though. I'm not including tourist railroads.

Wait...

Is this thread about the Arrow doors or silverliner doors because I've been assuming that this is about the silverliners. Is the question at the top of this thread related to a car with double leaf doors or single leaf? If it's double, then the NJT forum is the place to go. If it is the single-leaf doors, then you're in the right place...

While on the subject, the Reading SL-IVs did not come with cab signals either, but what the Reading cars did have that the P.C. cars didn't (though the P.C. cars more likely to needed them) was (forgive me for a lack of a better term) line voltage switchers (to switch from 11,000 to 25,000 on the fly). They were located near the pantograph (though long since removed).

tjensen wrote:Wait...

Is this thread about the Arrow doors or silverliner doors because I've been assuming that this is about the silverliners. Is the question at the top of this thread related to a car with double leaf doors or single leaf? If it's double, then the NJT forum is the place to go. If it is the single-leaf doors, then you're in the right place...

Yes, the OP was about trainlined doors on the ex_Reading SL-IV's and had nothing to do with the Jersey Arrows (despite their similarity). As is usually the case on this board, the topic swung over to the next rack.

tjensen wrote:Wait...

Is this thread about the Arrow doors or silverliner doors because I've been assuming that this is about the silverliners. Is the question at the top of this thread related to a car with double leaf doors or single leaf? If it's double, then the NJT forum is the place to go. If it is the single-leaf doors, then you're in the right place...

TJ: This topic is about the S4 cars but with the mention of the A2 cars I decided to include
a little information about them since both car types came from the same builder - GE - in
the same time period - the middle 70s - and the A2 cars being similar had features like their
center doors that the S4 was equipped for but never had that option installed...The
paragraph I posted about the A2 was basically for comparison only...and where I may
have stepped "out of bounds" was including the sentence asking if the A2s had ever
been used on the Princeton Branch "Dinky" - I agree that is more appropriate for the
NJ Railfan or NJT section then here...

711: Another S4 feature that is easily spotted is their dynamic brakes and their large roof
line - the A2 never had them...and that 11KV/25KV changeover function is something that
can be easily overlooked since SEPTA never had the need to equip the S4 for both voltages...

The Silverliner 4 car orders (the original and the add-on) totaled 231 cars and the NJDOT A2
order was far smaller - 70 cars...I will also add that SEPTA was offered by NJT the option to
buy the A2 fleet when they were retired by NJT but because of their condition SEPTA turned
down this offer knowing that they would have had to put substantial money into a rebuild or
overhaul...With the A2 cars SEPTA would have added 70 more compatible cars of similar
design type to the S4 and possibly allowed earlier retirement of the S2 and S3 fleet and if
all four car types were kept this could have provided additional service and a higher spare
car ratio but instead the A2s went to the scrapper...

MACTRAXX

Actually, the Silverliner IV order was for 232 cars. One of them was wrecked in an accident in 1980 around North Wales. Car 9020.

jackintosh11 wrote:Actually, the Silverliner IV order was for 232 cars. One of them was wrecked in an accident in 1980 around North Wales. Car 9020.

Christ, that's just about the worst train accident (photo) I've seen since the LIRR MP70 collision at rockville center (was it there?????)

jackintosh11 wrote:Actually, the Silverliner IV order was for 232 cars. One of them was wrecked in an accident in 1980 around North Wales. Car 9020.

One was wrecked? So the car on the left was repaired?