Railfan Ardmore

chuchubob wrote:

CHIP72 wrote:
Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park (in addition to the fact the R5 station isn't located in close to proximity to where the line crosses the Route 100).

It's a seven minute walk between the R5 station and the P&W station (for an average person without ambulatory handicap [me]).

If you are going to the Ardmore Ave P&W from the R5, the best way is to walk west on Lancaster Ave about one block,hang a left on to Ardmore Ave and walk straight down Ardmore Ave. The 4th light you come to is Haverford Ave,cross that walk up a slight hill and the P&W station is on your left. Its about a mile down on Ardmore Ave.


If you want to go to Ardmore Jct,the best way is to walk down Cricket Ave,past the the 3 Irish bar restaurants till you come to County Line Rd,hang left on to County Line and go over for a block and you'll see the busway for the 103 on your right,turn there and walk straight down the busway,cross Haverford Ave(be careful very busy road at times) and Ardmore Jct is on the right.. I would say that Ardmore Jct is a little closer,but depending on the time of and what day (and the weather) , you can easily just hop the 103 bus.

CHIP72 wrote:Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park (in addition to the fact the R5 station isn't located in close to proximity to where the line crosses the Route 100). Not only do you have the R5 and Route 100, you also have the Blue Route/I-476 and Lancaster Avenue/US 30 in close proximity.

When the Blue Route was built, there were plans to merge the 2 stations and add a park-n-ride lot. But the Main Line NIMBYs and NCAA members (Never Change Anything Anywhere) went into overdrive and nixed any chance at a transit-friendly implementation.

Septaman113 wrote:...go over for a block and you'll see the busway for the 103..

And that is the sad remnant of the Ardmore trolley line, bustituted at the end of 1966. At least they didn't pave over the 100 as well (which was discussed prior to acquiring the N-5s). http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... e4c689c39b

CHIP72 wrote:Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park.

That's not so bad. Offices are likely to generate more transit ridership than residences.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

CHIP72 wrote:Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park.

That's not so bad. Offices are likely to generate more transit ridership than residences.

If you have mixed use (residential/commercial) development there, you have greater potential for bi-directional traffic during both peak periods.

You are right though that an office park isn't the worst use you could have in that location.

chuchubob wrote:

CHIP72 wrote:
Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park (in addition to the fact the R5 station isn't located in close to proximity to where the line crosses the Route 100).

It's a seven minute walk between the R5 station and the P&W station (for an average person without ambulatory handicap [me]).

I've walked between the 2 stations once, and IMO the stations could be much better connected pedestrian-wise (or perhaps more accurately there could be better pedestrian access between the Route 100 and the office park near the R5 station that I mentioned in the original post).

Even though the walk between the R5 Villanova and Route 100 Villanova stations is probably a little further, and you have to cross US 30, it is a more pedestrian-friendly walk than its Radnor counterpart IMO.

JeffK wrote:When the Blue Route was built, there were plans to merge the 2 stations and add a park-n-ride lot. But the Main Line NIMBYs and NCAA members (Never Change Anything Anywhere) went into overdrive and nixed any chance at a transit-friendly implementation.

From what I read, there was also a plan on the table for a several years that would have had a 422 spur hitting the Blue Route right in the vicinity of the stations. I believe that was back off the tables by the late 70's's though.
http://www.phillyroads.com/history/expwy-map_1974/
Considering the hurdles that were jumped through to even have the Blue Route finally opened to the public, the park and ride lot may have been an early casualty of compromise.

This is not to say that the idea is not a good one on merging the stations with a common transfer area, whether it be a parking garage or a reconfiguration including retail/mixed use development. Sadly, I suspect there is very strong NIMBY influence in the area that may not like ANY further change, but that is pure speculation on my part. I too find it somewhat aggrevating when two heavily travled lines don't have have a common connection for ease of transfer (whether it be roads or rails.)

ChrisinAbington wrote:Sadly, I suspect there is very strong NIMBY influence in the area that may not like ANY further change, but that is pure speculation on my part.

Chris, your speculation is correct. I lived in various parts of the Wayne / Radnor area during the '60s and '70s, and there are a number of civic associations that are ostensibly dedicated to maintaining the "character" of the neighborhoods. The North Wayne Protective Association is probably the most well-known. They came out in force when a merged station was first proposed.

The associations done a lot of good, preventing overdevelopment, tear-downs, and such* but they've also been given over to a strong streak of "our way or no way" along with a leavening of NIMBYism. It's one reason that expanded parking at a lot of R5 stations has been stymied.

Where the P&W is concerned, I hate to say it but I'm sure there was class-ism and racism involved. too When the (moribund) Plaza extension was up for public hearings I heard a number of people express troglodytic views that should have come out from under pointy white sheets, and K of P is more diverse than the Main Line.

I too find it somewhat aggravating [aggrevating] when two heavily traveled lines don't have have a common connection for ease of transfer (whether it be roads or rails.)

You & me both.


* If you look closely at the older houses in North Wayne, many are in fact cookie-cutter tract houses! North Wayne was IIRC the second tract community in the U.S. over 50 years before Levittown. The houses have been modified so much over the last century that it's sometimes hard to see the similarities, but one of the things the NWPA has done is to prevent modifications from straying too far from the houses' original "flavor". No aluminum siding, cinder-block extensions, etc. like you see in some communities. While some of these are arguably restrictions on owners' property rights, given the recent boom in restoration work and preservation of neighborhood character in many places Wayne was actually a bit ahead of the curve.

CHIP72 wrote:
I've walked between the 2 stations once, and IMO the stations could be much better connected pedestrian-wise (or perhaps more accurately there could be better pedestrian access between the Route 100 and the office park near the R5 station that I mentioned in the original post).

Even though the walk between the R5 Villanova and Route 100 Villanova stations is probably a little further, and you have to cross US 30, it is a more pedestrian-friendly walk than its Radnor counterpart IMO.

Agreed. The Radnor walk is seven minutes, but it's not a pedestrian friendly walk. The Villanova walk is much more pleasant.

Bob

chuchubob wrote:The Villanova walk is much more pleasant.

Yes - it takes you through the heart of the Villanova campus. Having taught at Villanova and my wife having done her M.A. there, I've made that walk many times.

The stations are not visible from each other but it's pretty simple. From the P&W station go across Lancaster Ave. and up the walkway to the Villanova chapel. There's a paved pathway that runs around to the right of the chapel and then resumes the same line as the entry walkway. The library will be on your right. Go through the underpass between 2 wings of the science building and you'll be at the R5 station. Maybe 10 minutes or so, albeit with a hill involved.

JeffK wrote:

chuchubob wrote:The Villanova walk is much more pleasant.

Yes - it takes you through the heart of the Villanova campus. Having taught at Villanova and my wife having done her M.A. there, I've made that walk many times.

The stations are not visible from each other but it's pretty simple. From the P&W station go across Lancaster Ave. and up the walkway to the Villanova chapel. There's a paved pathway that runs around to the right of the chapel and then resumes the same line as the entry walkway. The library will be on your right. Go through the underpass between 2 wings of the science building and you'll be at the R5 station. Maybe 10 minutes or so, albeit with a hill involved.

I've been playing with Google customized maps for other things lately, so here's what this walk looks like from above (you can zoom in a bit more):

Villanova Route 100 to R5 on Foot

Villanova has a nice campus, so if there's time to kill, there are worse things to do than wander around there. (Disclaimer: it's my alma mater as well).

Note that there are two stops on the Route 100 on the Villanova campus - "Stadium" along Ithan Ave, which is closer to the sports complex, and "Villanova", which is what you want, opposite the chapel and pictured in the map above.

Incidentally, this route is how I got home on 9/11 after Amtrak temporarily shut down its tracks - MFL -> R100 -> (walk) -> back to the R5, which later resumed running when Amtrak did.

CHIP72 wrote:.....Speaking of the Blue Route, I personally feel it is a shame that the area close to the R5 and Route 100 Radnor stations is dominated by an office park (in addition to the fact the R5 station isn't located in close proximity to where the line crosses the Route 100). Not only do you have the R5 and Route 100, you also have the Blue Route/I-476 and Lancaster Avenue/US 30 in close proximity. (If you ride the SEPTA R5 or Amtrak Keystone between Radnor/Paoli and Villanova/Ardmore, you can see the Route 100 and Blue Route crossing below you within about 5-10 seconds of one another.) This would be a great place for a mixed-use residential/commercial community with great rail and highway access (i.e. like many of the towns on the Main Line, but with better highway and rail access), if the land were to be redeveloped. Alas, that won't happen anytime soon.

The PA Dept of Highways (now PennDot) purchesed the land between the P&W (SEPTA Rt 100) and I-476 for the purpose of a Park and Ride lot. The plan also included the relocation of Radnor R5 Station east to this area. Unfotunately funds did not allow for this construction although if you notice, the Amtral/Septa bridge over I-476 is longer than it need be to allow for an interchange with the never built Park and Ride.

Considering they are doing Track work in Ardmore now, Ardmore Station, wouldn't be a bad spot to rail fan, theres all types of Amtrak Equipment moving on Track #4 these days....

I caught Amtrak's Track Laying Machine at Merion a couple weeks ago.
I got a Keystone Service train going through.

I won't be able to go back there for a while, but It was fun.

The views are good, the sun is good. Parking is horrible, I spent 30 minutes circling Suburban Sq looking for parking.

The OML area is really nice.

You are better off getting to Ardmore by train. Any day, but Sunday, Septa stops there at least twice an hour during the off peak. Some Amtrak trains also stop there, but not many.
A few stops on the 100 might be within walking distance from the R5