Rail in Saudi

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/news.php?id=86545

New rail system planned for Saudi?

(My experience is that these plans have existed for decades and very little happens. Twenty years ago a large new rail station was built in Dammam but only one or two trains a day use it on the only line that exists.)

I wonder if this will actually get built?

http://steelmillsoftheworld.com/news/ne ... ?slno=5224

Yeah, very interesting. Anyone have opinions about the capabilities of those three companies? Didn't Bombardier build the Acela? Didn't all those trains have brake problems? What an embarassment.

kiha40 wrote:Yeah, very interesting. Anyone have opinions about the capabilities of those three companies? Didn't Bombardier build the Acela? Didn't all those trains have brake problems? What an embarassment.

Bombardier has a large number of trains in Europe. I am not aware that it is notoriously bad

Acela suffers from the rules in the US that have caused it to be far too heavy. Perhaps too it runs on track that isn't up to European standards.

But really there have been so many proposals for more rail in Saudi that one wonders whether any new proposal will get built. The Haj routes being proposed here are probably the most likely as there are so many people who need to be moved, at the season - though for most of the year traffic would be rather modest.

If they ever build for freight the routes would be one in the west to Jordan, and one in the east to Kuwait and Iraq. Clearly the eastern route won't be built till Iraq is peaceful. That's not likely for a long time. And an east-west route across the desert has often been proposed. The main problem is the escarpment down from Taif to Jeddah, on which there is one of the world's most spectacular roads - guaranteed to make the passenger pray all the way down.

When, early last century, an attempt was made to extend the Hejaz Railway south towards Jeddah and Makka, the Wahabi Wackos, introduced in the West by the newly powerful House of Saud, sabotaged the works, and slaughtered the navvies (fellow Muslims). This work was intended to help pilgrims fulfill their Hajj and Umrah duties...no one dared carry out the obvious plan to connect the End-of-Line at Madinah to Makka, and Jeddah. The highways connecting these cities are death traps, full of idiots who shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel. Also, Jeddah is connected to Madinah by air (180 miles)...it takes longer to check in for a flight, than to drive, yet jumbos and Airbusses fly each hour. It's obvious rail is the answer, by logic...but not Wahabi Logic, which rules in the Sandbox Kingdom. These killers also broke every mirror, and smashed statues, in areas they took over. Want a job building rail in the Kingdom? Ha! Sam

Sam, interesting outlook on engaging in such work in that region.

George, my comment wasn't meant to be nasty, but here in Japan, I've never heard of mechanical failures affecting the operation of the railways. Jumpers, sure; the Japanese have a disturbing proclivity towards suicide--but busted hardware, no.

kiha40 wrote:Sam, interesting outlook on engaging in such work in that region.

George, my comment wasn't meant to be nasty, but here in Japan, I've never heard of mechanical failures affecting the operation of the railways. Jumpers, sure; the Japanese have a disturbing proclivity towards suicide--but busted hardware, no.

I think Bombardier has a good record in Europe.

Conditions in the Hejaz would be quite extreme. Inland the temperatures are high and the atmosphere very dry with plenty of sand in the air. Near the coast humidity can be very high - as one comes down the road from Taif to Jeddah one meets the humid air like a wall. Obviously trains would need fierce air conditioning to cope with the humidity and to filter out the dust.

I suppose they would build something like a diesel TGV. I don't know what existing models there are for these. In Britain we have had good service from the HST 125s which consistently run the fastest diesel services for about 30 years. To go faster with diesel might be a problem.

I would think that electrification in the Hejaz would be difficult. Sand blasting the overhead would be a serious problem.

I have travelled in Saudi on the train from Dammam to Hofuf, which is not at all high speed. It was quite a nice little trip. I came back by bus.

The Wahabi have now accepted much of the modern world and so would not obstruct a rail line, as long as there are women only carriages.

george matthews wrote:as long as there are women only carriages.

Ahhhh, I think Sumitomo Heavy Industries can help here. The Japanese have already refined this technology:



To be fair, the second one is a night train.

Progress is being made.

The Saudi Railway Organization (SRO) has called upon specialised national and international companies to participate in the implementation of the 500km Makkah to Madinah Rail Link (MMRL) project by offering their tenders.


"The project aims at providing a safe, fast, reliable and comfortable mode of transport for Umrah and Haj pilgrims traveling between the two holy cities and Jeddah," says the SRO in a statement. Economists expect participation from major European, US and Japanese companies in the project, which will be implemented on a design, build, operate and transfer (DBOT) basis.
"A typical consortium bidding for the project will include a high-speed technology provider, rail operator, and a construction company as well as financial, legal and technical advisers," the SRO claims. The MMRL includes the construction of approximately 500km of new high-speed electrified railway lines between Jeddah and Makkah and between Jeddah and Madinah. It will be equipped with modern signalling and telecommunications systems.

From here.
http://www.gtreview.com/newsItem.php?STORY_ID=3582

Clearly, this will be a people mover railway. The distance is moderate. It will not be part of a Network. I would think electrification will be difficult because of the extremes of clmate encountered.

Meanwhile, four consortia comprising Saudi and foreign companies have qualified to present their offers to carry out the land bridge project, the main thrust of the kingdom's railway expansion project.


This project involves construction of 950km of new tracks between Riyadh and Jeddah and another 115km line between Dammam and Jubail. Seraisry emphasises the significance of the land bridge, saying it would strengthen the kingdom's position on the map of regional and international transport. The land bridge will reduce travel time between Riyadh and Jeddah by at least five hours depending on the type of trains used. Cargo trains would be able to cover the distance between Jeddah and Dammam in 24 hours.

I would not be surprised if this line will not have any passenger services, if it is ever built.

[quote]I would not be surprised if this line will not have any passenger services, if it is ever built.

The only justification for this line is umra and hajj pax traffic; without that, there is no reason to build the line. They should build this line, and lines between Jeddah (airport and city) and Madina, and Jeddah (airport and city) and Makka. They have the money, and enough projected traffic.

Semaphore Sam wrote:

I would not be surprised if this line will not have any passenger services, if it is ever built.

The only justification for this line is umra and hajj pax traffic; without that, there is no reason to build the line. They should build this line, and lines between Jeddah (airport and city) and Madina, and Jeddah (airport and city) and Makka. They have the money, and enough projected traffic.

The second part of my post referred to the trans-peninsular line, from Dammam to Jeddah.
That seems more likely to be a freight line. The Hejaz line being planned would be for pilgrim traffic. They are encouraging people to make the pilgrimage all round the year, so evening out the peak and trough. That would provide steady traffic.

abit offtopic , ( and im hope any muslim reader will find this amusing ) .
but this reminds me of a story my father told me . in New Zealand , the Overlander passenger service traverses the rarimu spiral , in which the train changes compass heading several times in the course of the 15 minutes or so it takes to travel it . My Father was in a carriage that had a group of muslim faithful travelling in it . Unfortunately thier prayer time coincided with the beginning of the spiral , and the leader was having trouble finding Mecca on his compass . ( so they could face Mecca to pray ) . the next 15 minutes were filled with alot of directions , as due west changed from side to side of the carriage every few minutes .

Push-pull diesel trainset with large loading gauge posed problems for getting it to Velim test track.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/pass ... velim.html

http://www.railjournal.com/newsflash/fi ... -1306.html

CAF seem to be a major player in the rilling stock game these days . or do they just get lots of small orders . (Saudi , Amtrak , Irish )

David Benton wrote:CAF seem to be a major player in the rilling stock game these days . or do they just get lots of small orders . (Saudi , Amtrak , Irish )

Yes, it seems their strategy is to go after the smaller orders and smaller markets rather than the showcase projects which are dominated by the European "Big 3" (alstom, siemens, bombardier). As for smaller and less bound-to-traditional-supplier markets I believe Hitachi is also looking to supply the Eastern European rail market once their plant in the north of England is up and running (in addition to fulfilling the IEP order).