Question RE: SD40-2 helpers on Horseshoe Curve

First off, the air through the train is only from the head end and controlled by the head end. You do not feed air to the trainline from a helper, an overcharged train can result from an act like this and it is against the rules to do so.
Second, you do not put the throttle in the 8th notch when the engine is not under load. Third or fourth notch is fine, maybe even the fifth in a pinch but nothing beyond. Doing this can cause mechanical problems with the locomotive and wastes fuel.
Don't go by what is on a video tape but by what appears in black and white in the air brake rules.
Noel Weaver

Hi guys,

First off I would like to appolgize to Mr Gallaway as I took those comments out of context.. I have to learn to stay out of forums after a bad day.
Being a pilot, I look at things with a different mind set.
I didnt realize there were so many scenarios possable in a move like this..
I thank you all for your input...

Jim

Thanks jgallaway and noel for your comments,always good to hear from fellow railroaders here. mr gallaway,that was a great description of how much work an engineer has to do when running a train,boy you make me miss the railroad ! noel ,the air rules are gospel for railroaders ,live by them or else. most importantly,when a question is asked on a board like this, it is always great to have correct information come forward. This hobby is full of mis-information and it bleeds off into books,videos and other media/buff groups. Again,thanks for all the posts everyone has made on this subject. I only wish i could have worked west of Gi-8 on the middle division back in the 90's. Some of us questioned and requested to be called the for those jobs but CR said no. Bob

Noel, I'll have to double check the NS rule book, but I'm 90% certain that it says "when the short time ratings of the traction motors have been exceeded, the movement must be stopped, the reverser centered, and the throttle advanced to notch eight to provide increased airflow from the traction motor blower to cool the motors."

I've never actually had to do this, so I'll have to double check the actual rule.

Bob; In order to get qualified west, I planned on marking off to do it on my own time. Fortunately, it worked out nice that Allentown got a job from there to Altoona. So I bid it. Had to drive to Allentown to get the train, west to the fuelpad for my pilot, and then west to Altoona. It was nice for a year when I had qualifications from Altoona to Croxton plus to Morrisville and to Hagerstown. Unfortunately my quals to Jersey, Morrisville & Hagerstown have all expired, but I've since added qualifications over the roller-coaster from Altoona to Conway.

jgallaway81 wrote:Noel, I'll have to double check the NS rule book, but I'm 90% certain that it says "when the short time ratings of the traction motors have been exceeded, the movement must be stopped, the reverser centered, and the throttle advanced to notch eight to provide increased airflow from the traction motor blower to cool the motors."

I've never actually had to do this, so I'll have to double check the actual rule.

Bob; In order to get qualified west, I planned on marking off to do it on my own time. Fortunately, it worked out nice that Allentown got a job from there to Altoona. So I bid it. Had to drive to Allentown to get the train, west to the fuelpad for my pilot, and then west to Altoona. It was nice for a year when I had qualifications from Altoona to Croxton plus to Morrisville and to Hagerstown. Unfortunately my quals to Jersey, Morrisville & Hagerstown have all expired, but I've since added qualifications over the roller-coaster from Altoona to Conway.

This is turning into a great thread, with great info - i almost feel like I could run a train over the curve now thanks to Jgallaways post (no, not really haha) -

Ive always understood that on an EMD, well at least a '40 series, to increase amperage for the traction motor blowers and accessories, as well as building air with a shaft driven compressor, notch 4 is optimal. Ive had to rev it up to cool it off that after trying to shove 28 stone hoppers up (half loaded, half empty) the Middlebrook Industral track in NJ with a single NJT Passenger geared geep (can't pull or push for nothing, Min cont speed is like 17mph with that gearing). The loco was not happy - it was hot - the TM were very hot - had to sit and wait for it to cool down for a few min before we creeped a few more feet. That smell is a clue the loco is getting very cranky - quite a unique smell of very big things getting very hot and smokey...Good thing it was 2am, as we had Route 22 crossing blocked for about 40 minutes

I know its not anything like Horseshoe Curve or what you freight guys deal with in Mountain Railroading, but its a damn steep grade and horrendous track, just a much smaller scale

ive been out there to buff only once, it was in January and it was freakin cold. Snow on the ground, but still was amazing to watch. Im hoping to get back out there this summer sometime to go to teh park on the curve and revisit a few other places. I also wanna get back out to Sand Patch as well.....thats another great place with great sounds!

jgallaway, thats too bad you did not keep up those qualifications,you need to make a trip every year or 6 months,to keep them right? Does NS make you qual for free everywhere? CR never paid for my Q trips to HBG from Reading,I figure they still owe me 1100 dollars for thast one.lol Man, when I think of all the places I Qualified to..........

Part of our ACT program is the qualification on the routes you need for your home terminal.
Since HBG West was not normally part of the HCT routes, it wasn't covered under my Conductor Training. However I was looking to moving from Harrisburg to Altoona when I got married, and was forced to get qualified from Altoona to Harrisburg (try making a 2hr call from Altoona to HCT to go east, lol)

As for keeping my quals, I was going to. But apparently there was some snippet int eh contracts that said "you can only take hold-downs on jobs that are covered by the same extraboard that cover the job you hold." In other words, as an Altoona Conductor on the AH pool, I could only hold down on jobs covered by the Altoona Extraboard. If I could have been gaurenteed to get what I needed, I would have bumped over to say a Jersey job for my 30-day bump and then take hold downs on a Morrisville Preffered to requalify there and one of the Hagerstown jobs to requalify there. Alas, that wasn't an option.


As for running a train over the curve :-p Its easy with a heavy train going west.. notch 8 to the top. The trouble is.. what do you do when you get to the top? Seriously, there are rules and speed limits even going uphill. Coming down the east slope is considered a qualification in itself. There are a lot of guys who won't bring a train down the east slope. I don't mind telling you, despite having done it many times, and even had two trains release on me coming down the steepest part, and managing to safely recover from the release, I still get nervous each decent.

It takes both skill and alot of patience to do it. You have to balance the train just right because right up to the top you are in eight throttle, and by the time the rear end comes over the top, you need to be in full dynamic. But you have to do it just right because dropping a notch too soon will result in a stall out. Leaving it on too long will result in a serious overspeed condition. Its not easy, and we all take going down the east slope very seriously because of this.

It amazed me the first time i ran a train, after being a conductor for a few years, how you can feel the train much differently than you do as a conductor, or in my case on my railroad, a passenger. Its hard to explain to someone how you might be slowing down, but the speed is increasing, pulling for power when the speed is decreasing, how you can tell if the train is pushing or pulling you, watching your gauges, and how those tiny little needles can give you tremendous amounts of info about what is going on back there, or really any of the countless other things that engineers (and conductors to a point) deal with on a daily basis. Some things simulators and games can really be accurate with, other things, well, bring you back to reality the first time you think you know what your doing and then find out that the train has its own ideas.....

the minute you don't respect the train, it will give you a taste of what it COULD do, and thats enough to put your heart in your throat and get you on the ball REAL fast...i bet that release going down was enough to make a few more grays on your head all of a sudden!

Safe railroading to you Jgallaway and all my brothers and sisters nation and world wide

My greatest scare was my first "training-solo"* run down #1 main off the mountain, which is far steeper than #2 or #3. I managed to get everything setup just right: just the right amount of air on the train to hold it steady, and just enough dynamic to control it just right... all of a sudden, I feel the train slam down into me and off we go. I'm thinking release, but the air pressures are holding steady and the helper doesn't say anything about a release on the rear.

Here, for some reason, the dynamic breaker tripped, cutting off the 900+amps of dynamic brake on my second unit. I managed to recover safely, but it just goes to show that even when everything seems to be going well, you need to be prepared for something to go wrong.

*Training-solo is my term for a training run when the training engineer just sits in the other seat and watches the trainee do the job. For all intents you are running alone, but you still have an experienced engineer to back you up if you need it.

Well at least your expierenced engineer was not in the conductors chair sound asleep,while you ran. I will never forget how that felt.

No, I'll grant you that. He was a very vigilant engineer who taught me a lot.