Question for the ancient ones.

I need info from the Ancient Oracles, or NIMBY> When was the last time you could get a train from Rockaway Park too Oyster Bay, via Hempstead Crossing? Also Ancient Ones, what was the peak passenger train traffic from Hempstead Crossing too Bethpage? I don't know why these area of the LIRR holds such a facination for me, but it does.....

Speaking of Hemstead Crossing, I just happened to upload the Bob Emery map of this area a couple of days ago.

I can tell you that the east leg of the wye at Mineola was out of service on May 18, 1927.

Don't know the last time a train was scheduled to go from Hempstead Crossing to Oyster Bay, or if they ever bothered to do so. The connection may have been simply for convenience to dead-head equipment or run freight trains. Can't tell you for sure.

Look thru some old timetables from prior to 1927 and do a little research. . . See if anything of the kind was scheduled. (P.S. Research is fun, if you're really interested! How do you think us "ancients" got so smart?)

As for Rockaway Park to Oyster Bay . . . . . ??????? How many connections were you planning on making?

I would say the most passenger service on the Central branch extension from the area of Hempstead Crossing east would have been the race trains to Meadowbrook, with service to the track stopping in the early 1950s.

Also, let's not forget the Mitchell Field shuttle from CLP. Prior to the shuttle, the LIRR ran ex-Ocean Electric trolley cars along the branch. The remnants of the short, low platform that was visible for years at Washington Ave (St.?). in Garden City, was a stop for that trolley.

Of course, Hempstead Crossing was gone in 1939, and the connection to Bethpage was removed way earlier than that.

Dave Keller

Can't answer your traffic questions, but I do sympathise on the fascination. For me it's the fact that I grew up along the Hempstead Branch (Nassau Blvd.) and I was fascinated by the maze of tracks out at the eastern reaches of it. I'm just "ancient" enough to remember the lines up to Mineola and down to West Hempstead (I saw them from my parent's car when we went shopping.) I also remember when they dissappeared.

I think those lines are a model railroader's dream! Just think of Hempstead Crossing: basically a 90 degree crossover in the middle of a double wye (if you include all the segments at once, that is!).

I also think we'd better appreciate what's still left, because in the long term it will very likely be nibbled all the way back to Franklin Avenue.

Growing up in MU country was a mind-warping experience. When I was a little kid seeing a diesel or a freight train was a big deal!

Here's the scoop at Bethpage Junction:

The track connection was removed in 1924-25.

The name "Junction" was no longer officially used after 5/1925.

The stretch of Central extension track near the junction headed towards the west (and "HC") remained in place until 1938-39, except where it was interrupted by the construction of the Bethpage State Parkway in 1936.

The junciton was located just north of Rt. 24 at MP27.86 (based on Main Line mileage).

After 5/1925, ALL the mileposts on the Central branch to Babylon were based on Main Line mileage.

Capisce?

Dave Keller

Took a quick look at some old timetables. Oct 16 1917 & Sep 10 1907 both show trains between Far Rockaway and Mineola. Jun 17 1897 & Jun 28, 1894 both show service between Valley Stream and Mineola and Valley Stream and Far Rockaway. June 2, 1879 Summer Schedule doesn't indicate any service between Mineola and Valley Stream, but shows service from Hempstead to Rockaway via Jamaica. No service through to Oyster Bay. Looks like Dave is right - scheduled service probably didn't exist.

Summer Schedule Jun 2, 1879 shows one train originating at Central Islip, stopping at Brentwood, Deer Park, West Deer Park, Farmingdale, Bethpage Jct, Garden City and through to Brooklyn. No service at Bethpage Jct on Jun 28, 1894. Also, with regard to my post above, I found three trains listed in the Nov 1, 1904 tt that ran east from LIC, through Jamaica, Garden City, Mineola and on to Oyster Bay. Two trains follow reverse route.

I have a train order in my archives issued at "MT" tower in Mineola on 2/21/29 that reads:

"Train 938, motor 1907 (MU Motor) has right over #939, Valley Stream to Mineola."

Now . . .according to my 1929 employee timetable, train #939 left Mineola at 8:45 am, passing through Hempstead Crossing, along the West Hempstead branch and arriving at Valley Stream at 9:05 am.

It then passed, without stopping, Higbie Avenue, Locust Avenue and Cedar Manor, arriving at Jamaica at 9:14 and then on to Flatbush Ave. arriving at 9:35am

Train #938 left Jamaica at 8:04 am, made stops at Cedar Manor, Locust Avenue, Higbie Avenue, Laurelton and Rosedale, stopping at Valley Stream at 8:20. It then made all the stops along the W. Hempstead branch, passing Hempstead Crossing and arriving at Mineola at 8:40 am.

So, the eastbound train had rights over the westbound one, between Valley Stream and Mineola.

Dave Keller

P.S. Locust Avenue was the previous name of the station that later became Locust Manor. DK

Johnny:

Great research!

Sounds like you have a nice timetable collection!

Dave

For those of you who are missreading the map Bob Anderson posted, its a clear view of what Hempstead Crossings used to look like. only the south west leg of the wye is sill inservice all others have been removed.

also i do have photos of the remains of the trolly platform.
it would be a nice public relations project to clean it up to make it know.

Hi Joe:

The Alzheimers hasn't kicked in quite yet. We may be ancients, but we do know what we're talking about!

We know that map is of Hempstead Crossing. Bob Andersen posted it because it was part of the discussions.

We're basically talking about:

1. Old connections to Bethpage Jct.
2. Old connections to Mineola/Oyster Bay
3. Thru trains that ran via Valley Stream, West Hempstead, through Hempstead Crossing and on to Mineola.

Lots of great stuff!

Dave Keller

P.S. Is the trolley platform still there? I photographed it around 1971. DK

I'm almost sure that I read on one of the sites that trains once operated from Oyster Bay to atleast Valley Stream. I think it's the same site where I saw a schedule of a few trains operating from Greenport to Montauk and Sag Harbor.

It may have been a book. I'll have to try to find it.

Remember this about the internet:

DO NOT believe everything you read.

There WAS train service from Greenport, via Manorville, to Sag Harbor. This service was nicknamed "going around the horn" (just like the old sailing ships before the Suez and Panama Canals opened) and the train was the "Scoot."

I don't believe there was PASSENGER service from Oyster Bay to Valley Stream. I believe that connection was for freight and equipment moves.

The fact that the connection and tracks from the Mineola wye to the OB branch were removed in the late 1920s obviously meant that portion of track was no longer necessary to the operation of the railroad. It would also be reasonable to assume that this track connection (east leg of wye) was probably not in use for some time prior to its removal.

I have never heard of passenger train service from the Oyster Bay branch down this line to "HC" and points beyond or vice versa.

This connection, BTW, is visible in George Brainard's photo of Mineola station taken in 1878. Look at the photo in Steel Rails to the Sunrise, and look beyond the depot. You will see the cross tracks in the distance.

Perhaps there was something happening here in the 1870s or 1880s, but I still highly doubt it. "Johnny F" checked his timetable from 1879 and there wasn't anything listed there.

Dave Keller

BTW: The West Hempstead branch was originally known as the New York Bay Extension and was built from Hempstead Crossing to Valley Stream.

The branch from Mineola southwards was the LIRR's original Hempstead branch, crossing the Central RR's tracks at HC and continuing on to Hempstead.

Also . . . look at the upper right portion of the Emery map that Bob Andersen posted above.

You will note, on the branch to Mineola, two stations: Stewart Avenue station and Hempstead Crossing station. These were stops for the afore-mentioned trolley service that also stopped at Washington Ave.

Look at that part of the map indicating Garden City station. You will see, south of the tracks, the layup tracks for those trolleys. It is indicated as note #53. The note explanation isn't visible on this map but I have it on mine in my archive.

Art Huneke's website has a shot of the trolleys laying up at Garden City.

Dave Keller

"This connection, BTW, is visible in George Brainard's photo of Mineola station taken in 1878. Look at the photo in Steel Rails to the Sunrise, and look beyond the depot. You will see the cross tracks in the distance. "

I think I've seen the picture that you're talking about.

I have a picture of the platform at the Washington Av and Stewart Av trolley stops that I took last yr.