PRR and PATH

What is the exact cutoff point from PRR to H&M tracks? Does PATH use ex-PRR platforms at JSQ, or their own? Are position-light signals still used on the PRR section? Is the old JC mainline still electrified? Can PATH technically platform at any of the Newark Penn Station platforms? How are PA cars siffernet from typical mass transit cars to be FRA compliant?

PATH cars can only use PATH platforms in Penn Station because they are the only ones with third rail.

Electrification systems aside, it is possible though, right?

Umm, I geuss so. The platforms should be ok but the couplers don't match up with heavy rail anyway. It's kinda farfetched.

I thought the track layout might have ruled against it.

Aren't path cars narrow like NYCT IRT equipment? If so, the platforms will have quite a gap.

Aren't path cars narrow like NYCT IRT equipment?

Only at the bottom of the doors. The last equipment PATH ran that could have operated in the IRT were the K-cars IIRC.

There is '40-50s ICC accident report that shows the property line. I think it was 100-300' west of the tunnel mouth before JSQ, after all it was all PRR land long before the H&M came along. Look under both PRR and H&M names.

Between Hudson tower and Harrison there has been a few track connections but I think its down to about one each way, gives a delivery connection to the shop. Connections existed in 1910, faded in the 30s to minimal Exchange Place connections then came back to allow hot Truc Trains to get on the main through Newark by joining the H&M/PRR Exchange Place passenger line at Grape interlocking in Meadows yard instead of crawling along freight lines through Waverly's yard areas. In the past I think it was hard to completely separate the two RR's here but with the industries gone now it is probably easy. That would make a cute discussion about whether the FRA status has to continue. Then you could debate the merits of a change and the political practicalities of one too.

I don't think a train diversion is practical now aside from platform gap, 3rd rail, couplers etc. When Manhattan Transfer existed it had gauntlet track on the outer platforms beacuse of the diff between H&M cars and PRR Exchange Place steam trains. There was even an overhead smashboard westbound at Harrison to announce misrouted PRR trains. There are no connections at Newark.

The only station at JSQ has always been H&M's. The old PRR interlocking diagrams that are on the web show the layout and limited connections quite well.

PRR's substation at JSQ is still there but is deenergized. It shows well in Local.Live.com's bird's eye view. I thought the catenary was steadily disapearing.

For the FRA equipment question there was a long thread here about 1-3 years back. The PATH equipment has a higher buff strength and is inspected at FRA intervals. There are probably lots of detail differences in the rules.

Bill

My observation has been that the PATH tracks sit about a foot or two higher on the 'road bed' than the NEC tracks. I am guessing that even if the PATH trains did platform on tracks 1-5, riders would have to jump down into the cars. But, correct me if I am wrong on that observation.

F23A4 wrote:My observation has been that the PATH tracks sit about a foot or two higher on the 'road bed' than the NEC tracks. I am guessing that even if the PATH trains did platform on tracks 1-5, riders would have to jump down into the cars. But, correct me if I am wrong on that observation.

I suspect that you are correct. The Hudson Tubes are circular in shape and considerably smaller than conventional rail tunnels such as the ex-PRR North River tunnels. Width is less than a standard rail car, and floor height may be as well.

Sorry to come in on this so late. But thinking about the floor height I believe PATH cars and Amtrak-NJT equipment are about the same. I think this because they 'share' a platform (though a very wide one) between Tracks 1 and 2 at Newark Penn Station. (This is where you board eastbound PATH trains and get on/off NJ Transit and Amtrak eastbounds.) It's basically a big high-level island platform and there is no difference in the height on the PATH side or the 'railroad' side.

Another interesting thing I saw, on a Pennsylvania Railroad-related Yahoo message board, a former PRR signal operator gave an example of how in the old days H&M and Pennsy shared track through the Kearny area. One afternoon (back in the 1950s) he recalled sending a late running 18-car Congressional Limited east on the same track behind a train of H&M black cars!!!

Path (H&M) did share the JC main. Also back when they both roads ran together, H&M cars were equipped with cab signals to operate between
Nwk and JSQ. Currently, all the Path cars are FRA compliant crashworthy.
The new PA-5's will not be FRA compliant. This owing probably to the fact that it is now an isolated operation.

Sorry to come in on this so late. But thinking about the floor height I believe PATH cars and Amtrak-NJT equipment are about the same. I think this because they 'share' a platform (though a very wide one) between Tracks 1 and 2 at Newark Penn Station. (This is where you board eastbound PATH trains and get on/off NJ Transit and Amtrak eastbounds.) It's basically a big high-level island platform and there is no difference in the height on the PATH side or the 'railroad' side.

The platform height is the same but the height of the rails may be different. I'm not sure.

Arrow I see what you're saying. But that could be determined by finding specs for PATH cars and Amtrak or NJ Transit cars. The distance from the railhead to the bottom of the passenger doors. This topic never occurred to me before, but I'd guess there's a common spec or standard for vertical height that railroads and commuter agencies use, since during holidays a lot of commuter equipment winds up in NEC service.

I think one problem PATH equipment would definitely have - if for some odd reason a train was towed into let's say Tk 4 at Newark Penn Station - would be the gap between the platform and the cars.

I think the sill heights are all the same. That is a federal reg. So the floor
heights of Path cars should be the same as Amfleet, Comets, etc.