Pre-Amtrak boarding procedures: lines, ticket checks, etc.?

SouthernRailway wrote:

eastwind wrote:Maybe Amtrak could do like European trains and post the destination of the car (in REALLY BIG LETTERS) next to—or on—each door?

Agreed. Doesn't the Acela Express have small digital displays on the exterior? I think that the Viewliner cars do as well. Maybe those could be made to show the destination.

The operative word here is "small." I've seen those things and I cannot read them from the other side of the platform. Who designed those things? Did they charge by the square inch?
What is the most important piece of information about a train? WHERE IT'S GOING. Why make the customers waste precious minutes hunting for that info?

Before Amtrak, each railroad had its name in big big letters on the side of each car. If the cars said "SOUTHERN" on them, it was a safe bet this wasn't the train to Toronto. If the train's cars said "SANTA FE," it probably wasn't going to St. Louis. To the uninitiated, Amtrak trains all look alike. Even for those who can tell the difference between an Acela and a Viewliner sleeper, that train on the platform at Newark could be going to Miami or it could be the late-departing train to New Orleans. How can you tell? How much time do you have to find out before it leaves? Hurry. Do something.

eastwind wrote: To the uninitiated, Amtrak trains all look alike. Even for those who can tell the difference between an Acela and a Viewliner sleeper, that train on the platform at Newark could be going to Miami or it could be the late-departing train to New Orleans. How can you tell?

Well, you could (a) look up at the video monitors that are found at regular intervals on all of the platforms at Newark Penn Station, (b) listen to the PA announcements, and/or (c) ask one of those conductor-type people who are standing by the train's open doors. If you still can't figure it out, you probably shouldn't be traveling on your own!

Having said that, I do like the European system of destination signs on cars, although unless you made them scroll through all stops you would still have the problem of people who don't know that the train boarding in New York that's signed for Boston is also the one that stops at Providence.

The signs on the platforms do that in Britain, and I'm trying to think where else I've seen it: the bottom part of the screen scrolls continuously through all the intermediate stops while the constant information, like departure time and final destination, is displayed on the upper part. (Good point about Providence -- when William Coleman was Secretary of Transportation he seemed unaware that trains from Washington to Boston made intermediate stops.)

ThirdRail7 wrote:While you are entitled to your opinion, it is subjective. We've mentioned numerous reasons why this is performed including but not limited to making sure passengers get on the right train. Additionally, the railroads aren't the only method of transportation that engage in the practice. Indeed, it isn't even the only industry that attempts to "nudge" people in the right direction.

I've mentioned this before. It is good that you are saavy passenger. However, not everyone is you. It may be an inconvenience to you but some passengers actually find the experience comforting.

My opinion is subjective, but the number of customers who dislike Amtrak's boarding procedures is objective, and based on what I see in threads such as this, there are more people who dislike the boarding procedures than people who like them. Amtrak is annoying more customers than it helps with these procedures, which is not good.

I would suggest that Amtrak let people board when they want, and Amtrak can have a representative stationed at entrances to platforms to direct people who need direction. Then those who need help will get it, and those who don't need help won't be inconvenienced.

Charlotte is probably screwed up because of the rapid increase in ridership due to the Piedmonts. The station is really a stop gap til a new one is built downtown. Not saying its great but its more a short term issue than a permanent problem. On the other hand DC is just awful. That concourse is a glorified bus station and should be ripped out and replaced with the original concourse without the mall. During peak times its as bad as NYP.

And Seattle? I recall a mob scene there due to the "line up and wait" boarding procedures when I took the Coast Starlight.

SouthernRailway wrote:

ThirdRail7 wrote:While you are entitled to your opinion, it is subjective. We've mentioned numerous reasons why this is performed including but not limited to making sure passengers get on the right train. Additionally, the railroads aren't the only method of transportation that engage in the practice. Indeed, it isn't even the only industry that attempts to "nudge" people in the right direction.

I've mentioned this before. It is good that you are saavy passenger. However, not everyone is you. It may be an inconvenience to you but some passengers actually find the experience comforting.

My opinion is subjective, but the number of customers who dislike Amtrak's boarding procedures is objective, and based on what I see in threads such as this, there are more people who dislike the boarding procedures than people who like them. Amtrak is annoying more customers than it helps with these procedures, which is not good.

I would suggest that Amtrak let people board when they want, and Amtrak can have a representative stationed at entrances to platforms to direct people who need direction. Then those who need help will get it, and those who don't need help won't be inconvenienced.

Based upon what you've read on threads like these, you're saying that more people dislike the boarding process that like it?

Over 30 million people traveled on Amtrak trains last year and you're seriously going to use this thread and the other one you started to justify your opinion that Amtrak is "annoying" more customers than it helps?

This laugh I'm enjoying came at the right time!

Thanks! Is there anything else you'd like to voice on behalf of the other 30 million riders you speak for? LOL!!!

Woodcrest295 wrote:Charlotte is probably screwed up because of the rapid increase in ridership due to the Piedmonts. The station is really a stop gap til a new one is built downtown. Not saying its great but its more a short term issue than a permanent problem. On the other hand DC is just awful. That concourse is a glorified bus station and should be ripped out and replaced with the original concourse without the mall. During peak times its as bad as NYP.

The current Charlotte station is AWFUL. However, like most of the stations on the NCRR (Charlotte to Raleigh) its has some unusual rules related to platform access. Platforms are all gated and locked and access is only allowed as the train approaches the station. Generally the station agents simply open the door or gate and let the crowd pass. I have only ever seen station agents look at tickets in Greensboro where Northbound and Southbound trains generally arrive within 30 minutes of each other.

I believe that restricted platform access is a policy that the NCRR applies to their lessee's, Norfolk Southern and Amtrak / NCDOT to prevent trespassing. This policy is clearly not in place at stations on CSX tracks (Rocky Mount and Wilson). I don't know what happens at Selma or Gastonia. Strangely Raleigh (which is on the NCRR) has no restrictions on platform access at all -- I suspect because interior space is so limited there.

Something needs to be done in New York City about the mob scene when they post the gate. People just overwhelm the gate.

Bob Roberts wrote: The current Charlotte station is AWFUL. However, like most of the stations on the NCRR (Charlotte to Raleigh) its has some unusual rules related to platform access. Platforms are all gated and locked and access is only allowed as the train approaches the station. Generally the station agents simply open the door or gate and let the crowd pass. I have only ever seen station agents look at tickets in Greensboro where Northbound and Southbound trains generally arrive within 30 minutes of each other.

I believe that restricted platform access is a policy that the NCRR applies to their lessee's, Norfolk Southern and Amtrak / NCDOT to prevent trespassing. This policy is clearly not in place at stations on CSX tracks (Rocky Mount and Wilson). I don't know what happens at Selma or Gastonia. Strangely Raleigh (which is on the NCRR) has no restrictions on platform access at all -- I suspect because interior space is so limited there.

Amtrak doesn't usually implement boarding "procedures" if there is no way to impose access control. platforms at Rocky Mount, Wilson, Selma and Raleigh are accessible from public streets.

Lest we forget, the stations that seem to be 'whipping boys' at this topic, namely Charlotte, NY Penn, Chicago US - all were configured on the strength that intercity rail travel was a 'goner' and that commuters could care less about station amenities and/or architecture.

That intercity rail has made some degree of a comeback during the Amtrak era was simply unforeseen. I think that Chicago US represents a 'best we can with what we got (yes, I know the hard core foamers think #222 should be imploded and the Concourse rebuilt), and before we chant too loud about having Madison Square Garden 'go elsewhere', think of all the off peak/reverse commute business MSG provides for the two commuter agencies that serve there - and I'd dare say some for Amtrak as well. When Charlotte was built during the early '60's SRY was at 'four a day' - and only two of 'em were really for passengers. It's what was needed as simply a 'caretaker' facility until the party was over. At that time, no one envisioned any kind of an intrastate passenger system - and considering how 'Red' NC is, it is amazing that an intrastate system ever turned a wheel.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:I think that Chicago US represents a 'best we can with what we got...

And it could be a lot worse. The current design does a good job of keeping the predominant Metra and Amtrak pedestrian traffic flows separated. Metra passengers walking across the Chicago River have escalators right from the north and south concourses leading up to the street right by the bridges and keep us away from the Amtrak part of the station.

It's further helped by track separation by uses. In normal circumstances and with the exception of the Heritage Corridor trains (which have to use run-through tracks), Metra uses the low-numbered tracks and Amtrak high numbers (on the south concourse, the "dividing line" moves through the day but on the north side, it's fixed). You normally won't have a Metra train and then an Amtrak train (or v.v.) on the same track within a few minutes.

I do think that Amtrak part of CUS could use more space and I thought there were some plans for that (like moving the First Class lounge). But there's only so much you can do with limited space. I'd encourage people with long connections to do some sight-seeing or go wait in the Great Hall but I can understand how people not used to a big city like being in an access-controlled waiting area (controlled by signs although there seems to be little actual enforcement of ticketed-passengers only in the waiting area).

lstone19 wrote:I do think that Amtrak part of CUS could use more space and I thought there were some plans for that (like moving the First Class lounge). But there's only so much you can do with limited space. I'd encourage people with long connections to do some sight-seeing or go wait in the Great Hall but I can understand how people not used to a big city like being in an access-controlled waiting area (controlled by signs although there seems to be little actual enforcement of ticketed-passengers only in the waiting area).

If you are transferring trains at Chicago's Union Station, or have a long wait for other reasons, you can always take advantage of the restaurants and stores available above Amtrak's waiting area. Having a map of the various stores and restaurants available in the Amtrak waiting area would be a great help for travelers. Having clocks easily visible throughout the mall area would also ease travelers minds about not letting the time slip away and missing their next trains. There's no reason why anyone should be stuck in the Amtrak waiting area for hours on end.

electricron wrote:If you are transferring trains at Chicago's Union Station, or have a long wait for other reasons, you can always take advantage of the restaurants and stores available above Amtrak's waiting area.

Ron, while I certainly respect your pointing out that there are various restaurants within CUS, both in the 'Food Court' you note, and adjacent to the now-named Great Hall, none are of the full-service varietal and are easily eclipsed by what you would find in the 'Thisgate Thatgate' Mall near you. The anchor food outlet is Mickey D, but allow me to note that a 'draw' for those here are the array of railroad photos and memorabilia on display. The main 'watering hole', Snuggery, is of course blaring with TV's tuned to various sports channels but I guess they also offer bar snacks. There is no full service restaurant, which is what I think the WOOF Sleeper clientele would want.

Just start walking East on Adams (X the river and you are going in the correct direction) and you will find something you will like, be it al fresco or indoors). Just stay on Adams and you can't get lost, i.e. when it's time to return to CUS, just make a 'reverse move'.

Not very many Amtrak trains get split up enroute these days but when they do I like the idea of a sign on each car. This practice is not brand new either. Back in the days when the New Haven Railroad ran daily summer service between New York and Cape Cod the trains to the Cape got split at Buzzards with the forward cars headed for Hyannis and the rear cars headed for Woods Hole. The New Haven used to paste paper signs on the end windows of each coach ie "New York - Hyannis" or "New York - Woods Hole" Certainally this could be done today with trains that either split or have cars cut off enroute. Two trains that come to mind are the Sunset eastbound which splits at San Antonio and the Empire Builder which splits at Spokane. I don't seem to remember any big problems with the New York - Cape Cod trains on the New Haven back in the days and I think the car signs probably helped here. The Boston - Cape Cod trains also split at Buzzards Bay but I did not ride them enough times to know whether they used car destination signs on them too although they probably did at least at one time.
Noel Weaver