General critique of museums and NRHS (was: M&H Chapter)

I was an NRHS member for over 25 years and although I haven't renewed for the last couple of years, I enjoyed the NRHS Bulletin in the days when it was 6 by 9 size and came out every two months. It had some nice articles and photographs. On problem with the organization and many of the chapters as well was that in most of the photos the people were pretty old and I do not think the National Organization and in at least some cases the chapters either haven't done enough to attract younger people to join up and participate. Saving a piece of equipment, old station or something else is a nice project but if younger people are not on board, when the old timers go, the project often goes too. When I was a member of the Mohawk and Hudson Chapter one problem and I tried to get them to change was that their meetings were almost always on a Saturday afternoon when many people would prefer to be out watching or photographing trains rather than been inside a buiding looking at slides. Younger people with families did not want to give up a Saturday afternoon when the wife and kids had lots of ideas for things to do. This does not bode well for the future of our hobby either, too many organizations are not looking toward the future but only to the past. One refreshing break from the down side of the NHRS and the Mohawk & Hudson Chapter is the Shore Line Trolley Museum (AKA Branford) in Connecticut. A look at recent publications from Branford show a broad range of both old timers and younger generation members participating at all levels of activity ranging from working on cars, track or buildings to operating cars for the public and giving guided tours. There is younger membership and participation here and the museum probably faces a good future for the years to come. Lesson to the NHRS and their local chapters, when you turn your backs on interested younger folks, you are turning your backs on the future of your organization. You had better wake up before it is too late.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:I was an NRHS member for over 25 years and although I haven't renewed for the last couple of years, I enjoyed the NRHS Bulletin in the days when it was 6 by 9 size and came out every two months. It had some nice articles and photographs. On problem with the organization and many of the chapters as well was that in most of the photos the people were pretty old and I do not think the National Organization and in at least some cases the chapters either haven't done enough to attract younger people to join up and participate. Saving a piece of equipment, old station or something else is a nice project but if younger people are not on board, when the old timers go, the project often goes too. When I was a member of the Mohawk and Hudson Chapter one problem and I tried to get them to change was that their meetings were almost always on a Saturday afternoon when many people would prefer to be out watching or photographing trains rather than been inside a buiding looking at slides. Younger people with families did not want to give up a Saturday afternoon when the wife and kids had lots of ideas for things to do. This does not bode well for the future of our hobby either, too many organizations are not looking toward the future but only to the past. One refreshing break from the down side of the NHRS and the Mohawk & Hudson Chapter is the Shore Line Trolley Museum (AKA Branford) in Connecticut. A look at recent publications from Branford show a broad range of both old timers and younger generation members participating at all levels of activity ranging from working on cars, track or buildings to operating cars for the public and giving guided tours. There is younger membership and participation here and the museum probably faces a good future for the years to come. Lesson to the NHRS and their local chapters, when you turn your backs on interested younger folks, you are turning your backs on the future of your organization. You had better wake up before it is too late.
Noel Weaver

What I have seen in the past on occasion is a group with 2 influential people who can't get along both have ideas and form there own 2 sides in a group one who has his idea and one who has different ideas. New members join but get sucked into one group or the other group with in the group or they stand alone one way or the other they stay in or they say screw this B.S. and leave when they see friction between 2 clashing groups and the lack of action.
Weekends I can see your point there but then and again some people can't make meetings during the week why not hold 2 meetings one late in the afternoon during the week and one on the weekend and have one of them just be a recap of what was done or said during the other meeting that would make sents to me.

What MXdata said about the Mystic Valley and the Mass Bay RRE groups I would also say about many (but not all) of the single railroad groups - they are the future of railroad historical societies and preservation efforts. The O&W group and the former Rochester Chapter have figured out is that the expensive overhead of the NRHS was causing people to leave the organization - how many people are willing to pay $50 or more to belong to a group, especially when 60% of that money goes to the national - and yes I know they get a magazine but people don't want to pay for general interest stuff (or if they do they buy Trains, Classic Trains, or Railfan & Railroad).

To some extent some of these groups do coordinate. A few years ago the C&OHS, NKP H&TS, ELHS, ELDCPS, and PM RHS had a joint convention in Cleveland giving participants to be exposed to a lot of stuff without going to multiple events. It would be nice if in the future there could be some kind of information exchange and communication between these type of groups. Not a formal NRHS organization but a way to share info across the spectrum, from ACL to WP and back.

mxdata wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote:

mxdata wrote:There are times when the things that go on within the National defy understanding. I heard that when the Tri-State Chapter NRHS was getting their F3 repainted in preparation for participation in the NRHS National Convention at Scranton, the National did not provide any support from their grants program. Finally a year later, perhaps influenced by all the positive publicity Tri-State and ARHS were getting in all the national magazines for their restoration efforts, they kicked in with a grant to help out on the cost of batteries. It is difficult to understand why it took them so long to get "on the train" when one of their own chapters was providing such an outstanding demonstration of the kind of support and committment to railroad history that the National is supposed to be about.

You certainly paint a dire picture of a national organization that seems to ignore the needs of its members. Again, I don't know the details, but the NRHS has a limited amount of fund to go around for their grants program. There are many deserving projects around the country, and each year, they choose four or five to support. Also, an organization has to apply for the grant. Rochester Chapter was the recipient of a coupe of grants over the last few years that helped us in many ways. We were in serious competition with other projects from around the country. The details for 2012 applications can be found here: http://www.nrhs.com/grant/

Sometimes it takes some colorful cover shots on the major publications to get the national organization to take notice.

MX

You really think that's how it happened? Or did you not understand the grant application process I tried to explain above? Or do you not understand that the NRHS is a NATIONAL organization, and not just centered around things that may or may not happen in New Jersey? I'm not defending the process, but I am trying to let you know that there is indeed a process for NRHS grant applications. If you want the money, you have to apply for it. Along with other projects from all around the country. Unless someone from ARHS or Tri-State wants to let me know otherwise, I assume the money they got from the NRHS was as a result of a grant application that they sent in 2010... Which would be awarded in 2011. By no means is the NRHS a perfect organization... But your arguments against the NRHS do not seem to contain many facts.

-otto-

Noel Weaver wrote:There is younger membership and participation here and the museum probably faces a good future for the years to come. Lesson to the NHRS and their local chapters, when you turn your backs on interested younger folks, you are turning your backs on the future of your organization. You had better wake up before it is too late.

Noel makes a good point. We are fortunate in Rochester to have so many young people involved in all aspects of the museum's operation, from holding office to running trains to heading up restoration projects.

-otto-

scharnhorst wrote:What I have seen in the past on occasion is a group with 2 influential people who can't get along both have ideas and form there own 2 sides in a group one who has his idea and one who has different ideas.

Yes, you've made it quite clear you don't get along with anyone. Every group has "friction" and "politics," it's a way of life when you have an organization that is populated with people who have different ideas and opinions on how to do things. Some people are not nice, and some people just enjoy being jerks. If you truly enjoy working with trains and want to make a difference, you figure out how to work with other people, how to compromise to meet a common goal. That is not the fault of the NRHS or any other national organization. In fact, if you read the organization's by-laws, the NRHS provides no direction or oversight on how a Chapter is to be run. Most Chapter by-laws include language that specifically insulates the NRHS national organization from the business dealings of the Chapters. The national organization serves to facilitate communication between all the chapters, provide membership services, and coordinate national activities like the conventions, the grant process, etc. It is up to the Chapters to determine how to operate and how to govern themselves.

Steamtown Observer wrote:The O&W group and the former Rochester Chapter have figured out is that the expensive overhead of the NRHS was causing people to leave the organization...

A valid point. Though I would say the O&W Society and the R&GVRRM have vastly different goals. The O&W group seems more concerned with making HO scale models than doing anything tangible in the railroading world. The former Rochester Chapter -- now the Rochester & Genesee Valley Railroad Museum -- has actual real world expenses when it comes to equipment preservation and operation. While there is short-term savings by eliminating the cost of membership in the NRHS national, the key to survival for any group is raising funds to meet long-term goals.

I noticed no one had a rebuttal to my greatly simplified multi-point list of steps towards preserving a piece of railroad equipment. Sure, everyone wants to save a old trains, but who is ready to help donate cash? Or help write grant applications? Or look into other forms of fundraising? "I don't like the ______ Museum! I stuffed a five dollar bill into the donation box six years ago and they STILL don't have that steam engine running yet!" or "I sent a check for $50 to the ______ Museum two years ago and they never painted the boxcar I made the donation for!" or "I told the _______ Museum about a rare caboose tucked up in the woods up in North Podunk Heights. They didn't care and it got scrapped by the owner!"

All preservation projects require three things. Time. People. Money. Which one can you help provide? We say it all the time, but every little bit does indeed count!

-otto-

That is not the fault of the NRHS or any other national organization. In fact, if you read the organization's by-laws, the NRHS provides no direction or oversight on how a Chapter is to be run. Most Chapter by-laws include language that specifically insulates the NRHS national organization from the business dealings of the Chapters. The national organization serves to facilitate communication between all the chapters, provide membership services, and coordinate national activities like the conventions, the grant process, etc. It is up to the Chapters to determine how to operate and how to govern themselves.

Otto,
Most groups have their own By-Laws which govern the organization. In New York, The NYS Board of Regents By-Laws supersede local group By-Laws if the group has a State Charter. In some cases, the State can be asked to oversea a dispute and make a decision for the group if the State feels its warranted.
BTW, if the group fails to honor or uphold their Charter or follow the State By-Laws, the group can lose its Charter.
John

Could someone elaborate on what makes a museum/ chapter more or less attractive to young people? What are some of the attributes that make the R&GVRRM favorable to the younger membership?

jurtz wrote:Could someone elaborate on what makes a museum/ chapter more or less attractive to young people? What are some of the attributes that make the R&GVRRM favorable to the younger membership?

We're located only a few miles from the RIT campus, so we've gotten a fair number of volunteers from there. We also get some young people who live in the area, some who volunteer with their parents. It's an exciting environment where you can actually take ownership of a project and see the results. We have an operating demonstration railroad, which provides its own set of challenges, but adds another dimension of activity to our museum. If you want to come down, demonstrate that you are reliable and responsible, you can go as far as you'd like in the organization.

http://rgvrrm.org/volunteer/

In my experience the way to lose donors for a restoration project is to not acknowledge the gift. We try to get an old fashioned snail mail thank you letter in the mail within two days of receiving the gift. I try to make sure the letter says what we hope to do with the money and a quick update on the project.

It is easy, young people now a day want instant gratification and are not joining any types of groups or organizations. Another thing is that The NRHS should give grans to only to NRHS chapters, if not enough chapters make application increase the grants to the ones that want them. It sometimes seems that the groups that are not affiliated with the NRHS have members on their board that are in better contact with the real worldf members of the and NRHS boards are made of the chapter and really have no idea on how to get real grants and donations also some chapters are not in the mainstream area. I have also noticed that there is some conflict of interests on some boards where a members isan officer or board member of both organizations. I was also a member of NHRS for many years and on the board of the local chapter butr am now only a museum members,the cost of NRHS members is just not worth it. beause if I want local info, they are the last place I would go. Thats just my 2 cents worth and I wish Rochester the best of luck without the nrhs.

njmidland wrote:In my experience the way to lose donors for a restoration project is to not acknowledge the gift. We try to get an old fashioned snail mail thank you letter in the mail within two days of receiving the gift. I try to make sure the letter says what we hope to do with the money and a quick update on the project.

Another way, is if the money is earmarked for a specific project, not to use it as earmarked. Once while a member of the M&H, we got a $5k donation towards the restoration of a WM FA-2 # 302. In spite of my objections, the money got put in the general fund and the FA-2 never saw a dime used on its behalf. Needless to say, the person who donated this money left the group and never donated another penny to this group for any project.

Someone recently gave me a copy of an NRHS periodical bulletin and I could hardly believe it. It looked like the offspring of a photography and an architecture magazine, with a heavy does of philosophy in the family tree. Instead of examining how the railroads served the various grain elevators of Buffalo it babbled on and on, discussing esoteric impressions of long-gone gurus. Another article had countless pages of bits of rail imbedded in streets and parking lots, but no maps, charts or text of what they used to serve, how the operation worked when it WAS in service - from what I could see there was nothing of any substance which was really RAILROAD related in the whole thing. I'm glad I don't belong to the group, I'd want my dues back pronto!

Aji-tater wrote:Someone recently gave me a copy of an NRHS periodical bulletin and I could hardly believe it. It looked like the offspring of a photography and an architecture magazine, with a heavy does of philosophy in the family tree. Instead of examining how the railroads served the various grain elevators of Buffalo it babbled on and on, discussing esoteric impressions of long-gone gurus. Another article had countless pages of bits of rail imbedded in streets and parking lots, but no maps, charts or text of what they used to serve, how the operation worked when it WAS in service - from what I could see there was nothing of any substance which was really RAILROAD related in the whole thing. I'm glad I don't belong to the group, I'd want my dues back pronto!

If you're talking about one of the recent editions of the NRHS Bulletin, I think I know the articles you're describing. They were not meant to be history pieces at all, they were indeed discussions of photography and the environment that railroads operate in. It's not pretty pictures of 3/4 sunlit wedgies, but another part of the hobby just the same. I will admit, the subject matter "is not for everyone," and the editor took a risk by publishing some material that might be described as "non-traditional."

The way I see it, if you're looking for "mainstream" railroad coverage, there's Railfan & Railroad and Trains for that, let alone the industry mags and the historical society journals. Since you're not a member, it sounds like you don't have to be bothered with the Bulletin unless someone puts it in your hands, so what's the big deal?