New England Central Railroad (NECR)

Will the work include CTC on the line, i.e. East Northfield to West River; Windsor to St. Albans?

I believe some signal upgrades are part of the project. Some sections of the line already have the "traffic light-style" signals, while others have the B&M-style searchlights. I'm pretty sure I've only seen the "traffic light style" on track north of Windsor to WRJ, and searchlights south of there to the NB approach to East Deerfield (MA).

CPF363 wrote:Will the work include CTC on the line, i.e. East Northfield to West River; Windsor to St. Albans?

Have been told by NECR that no CTC will be extended - just work to upgrade existing CTC. Thus, the speed limit will be upgraded to 79 over the segment of the railroad that is already signalled (south of WRJ) and will be a constant 59 in dark territory above WRJ (some is only good for 55).

Andy

Change in schedule? Amtrak left St Albans this morning at 8:30

MikeVT wrote:Change in schedule? Amtrak left St Albans this morning at 8:30

Full VERMONTER service is provided over July 4th and Labor Day holiday travel periods.

Andy

Amtrak again this morning. Guess this will be the last until Sept. No chip trains into Burlington in a month or so. Not sure if the track work is impacting it also.

Let's hope that once the trackage is upgraded it will be maintained to the degree that PAR has kept up the B&M Haverhill-Portland line. I've seen some ups and downs on the NECR's condition over the years, some to the point that Amtrak service was suspended. Hopefully some maintenance standards have been addressed in this upgrade program.

MikeVT wrote:Amtrak again this morning. Guess this will be the last until Sept. No chip trains into Burlington in a month or so. Not sure if the track work is impacting it also.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... 8543819683

This gives the dates of the service disruptions to the Vermonter. There will be a couple of week-long periods of service between now and Labor Day.

Hey guys. I will be on vacation in Northern Vermont next week and plan to hit St. Albans for a day. Anyone know what kind of schedule the NECR (road trains, wood chip train, locals, etc.) is running these days? The past 2 summers I've been able to catch the CN train from Canada coming in around early afternoon, but I'm well aware (especially with the track work) any routine on a freight railroad is subject to change at any time. Any info would be great. Thanks in advance!
---BILL

Road trains run at night, southbound typically leaves around 2030 from St. Albans and Northbound typically leaves Brattleboro around 1900-2100 everything else, your guess is as good as mine, this project has made a big mess out of operations!

NECR-Conductor wrote:Road trains run at night, southbound typically leaves around 2030 from St. Albans and Northbound typically leaves Brattleboro around 1900-2100 everything else, your guess is as good as mine, this project has made a big mess out of operations!

I figured the track work might throw everything off, I'll just do the usual by arming myself with a scanner and hoping for the best. Thanks for the reply!

It is too bad the project is not to include some CTC. If signals were installed, and the speed limit was raised to 79MPH, the Windsor to St. Albans run would decrease in time of about 40 minutes (Windsor to St. Albans is 136 miles or so). The only place signals would be absent in VT would be between East Northfield and West River (this section at one time had ABS which may no longer be in service?). Signals begin at West River (CP122) and run to Windsor (CP170) currently. On the B&M portion south of East Northfield to Greenfield, is CTC part of the project or will this portion remain dark also? There is working CTC between Springfield and Greenfield on the Conn River Line.

CPF363 wrote:It is too bad the project is not to include some CTC. If signals were installed, and the speed limit was raised to 79MPH, the Windsor to St. Albans run would decrease in time of about 40 minutes (Windsor to St. Albans is 136 miles or so). The only place signals would be absent in VT would be between East Northfield and West River (this section at one time had ABS which may no longer be in service?). Signals begin at West River (CP122) and run to Windsor (CP170) currently. On the B&M portion south of East Northfield to Greenfield, is CTC part of the project or will this portion remain dark also? There is working CTC between Springfield and Greenfield on the Conn River Line.

There are signals just across Vernon Road from the Brattleboro Station that are functional - but those just may be for the approach to West River. There are also signals north of Windsor to White River Jct, including some of the newer style which face both ways (NB, it would be viewable from the fireman's side) and are similar to a traffic light (with the green on top). I recall seeing a "SIGNAL TERRITORY ENDS/BEGINS" sign at the south end of White River Jct yard (BANK) so they're active from Windsor to WRJ, but just not CTC.

CPF363 wrote:It is too bad the project is not to include some CTC. If signals were installed, and the speed limit was raised to 79MPH, the Windsor to St. Albans run would decrease in time of about 40 minutes (Windsor to St. Albans is 136 miles or so). The only place signals would be absent in VT would be between East Northfield and West River (this section at one time had ABS which may no longer be in service?). Signals begin at West River (CP122) and run to Windsor (CP170) currently. On the B&M portion south of East Northfield to Greenfield, is CTC part of the project or will this portion remain dark also? There is working CTC between Springfield and Greenfield on the Conn River Line.

It's going to be CTC via track circuits, but wayside and not cab signaled. That does allow 79 MPH perfectly fine. All new installations in the region do some form of track circuits even in wayside territory because it's the baseline infrastructure that allows cab signals and ACSES to be layered on later without need to rebuild everything yet again. And it's much more reliable than pole line ABS. This is what the MBTA is doing with its Fitchburg Line signal replacement. They're replacing tower-controlled, pole line ABS with CTC track circuits, but had to cut cab signals and go with wayside-only to spread the dollars out to cover the rest of the project. Adding cabs is a TBD for some future funding appropriation. They'll be replacing all of the in-state Downeaster route signals in 3 phases starting in 2015, similarly with CTC track circuits (and probably not cabs unless they can score a big enough grant).

PAR also runs its entire freight network wayside-only, and only maintains 3 cab signal locomotives in its fleet to traverse the Springfield Line into CT. As they never ever spend money they don't have to on upgrades, it's a major constraint to force cab signals on a line they own. I'm sure Amtrak is itching to add cabs and ACSES on the Conn River Line once traffic levels ramp up and it's clearer what the FRA deadline extension past 2015 for PTC installations is going to be. But I bet either they or the state buy the line from PAR first before making that decision so they're not beholden to PAR for permission. Amtrak's already nervous that PAR just isn't going to put enough of a dent in signal renewal on the Downeaster in NH and ME to allow an ACSES install on anywhere near the timetable they say they want it.

Also, you figure if there's going to be extra funding thrown at the Vermonter for signal improvements an add-on to get NECR up to CTC spec is going to be higher priority than adding cabs and PTC to the Conn River Line. Doesn't make sense to dump a lot of money into being completist in Massachusetts if trains still have to crunch down to 59 MPH in Vermont. And adding PTC in ABS territory requires installs different or modified from traditional ACSES, which has proven pretty much bulletproof in track circuit territory. Much more advantageous to help NECR upgrade first before throwing down the beefier cab/PTC tech on top of the rebuilt Conn River signal system.

What is the weight of hte CWR being laid? The subject was broached earlier in this thread, but not answered.