Saratoga & North Creek Railway (ex-UHRR) - 2011

According to trainorders, the f unit went back to colorado, but the D&H painted GE is still coming east.

Safetee wrote:I have heard that two dome cars might be on their way to Buffalo and hopefully from there east.

Could these been from the ski train pool that was supposed to run out of denver a few years ago?

D.Carleton wrote:It's still not clear how they will get clearance to run to the station in/near Saratoga.

I was under the impression they had already worked that out with Canadian Pacific. I think the only thing they are seeking at this point is regulatory approval from the STB. I don't think they would file an application with the STB to start service to Saratoga Springs if they did not have that critical agreement in place first.

Of course, I could be dead-set wrong, too. But it would be really odd for them to take these steps if they hadn't at least started talking/negotiating with CP first.

-otto-

CarterB wrote:Their website says "Connects with National Rail System" but from what I see, coming from NYC, you'd have to spend a night before in Saratoga Springs or a night over in North Creek do avail yourself of such? What accommodations recommended in each place?

The only problem with Saratoga Springs is that the city and the railroad agreed to relocate the D&H mainline out of the city in the mid-1950s, so any visit requires a short taxi ride to and from the station to reach "downtown." That said, I have never stayed overnight, but a quick google search shows that most of the major chains are represented there.

If you took Amtrak up to Saratoga Springs, the northbound Adirondack arrives at 11:57am, the northbound Ethan Allen arrives at 6:52pm. The connecting S&NC trains leave at 7:00pm (S&NC Train 185) and 9:30pm (S&NC Train 183). Perhaps the seven hour gap is to allow visits to Saratoga Springs?

If you departed North Creek on the 7:00 am train (S&NC Tr. 186), arriving at Saratoga Springs at 9:02 am, you could connect with the southbound Ethan Allen Express departing Saratoga Springs at 9:40 am. If you wanted to spend the day at Saratoga Springs before continuing south, you could make a connection with the southbound Adirondack at 3:53 pm.

If it were up to me, I'd schedule the S&NC trains to depart within 45 minutes of the scheduled Amtrak arrival time. There must be a very good reason why the tentative schedules show such a gap in connections (unless I forgot how to read a timetable)?

Otto Vondrak wrote: If it were up to me, I'd schedule the S&NC trains to depart within 45 minutes of the scheduled Amtrak arrival time. There must be a very good reason why the tentative schedules show such a gap in connections (unless I forgot how to read a timetable)?

It isn't so much forgetting how to read an Amtrak timetable as understanding that the times listed are frequently the "suggested" or "recommended" times. I was in Utica and looked at the Amtrak train board to see several trains were delayed... especially the long-distance ones.

Back to the point, it is quite a short trip into "town" from the train station (maybe 5-10 minutes if that) and the area is quite pleasant to walk around in.

Benjamin Maggi wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote: If it were up to me, I'd schedule the S&NC trains to depart within 45 minutes of the scheduled Amtrak arrival time. There must be a very good reason why the tentative schedules show such a gap in connections (unless I forgot how to read a timetable)?

It isn't so much forgetting how to read an Amtrak timetable as understanding that the times listed are frequently the "suggested" or "recommended" times. I was in Utica and looked at the Amtrak train board to see several trains were delayed... especially the long-distance ones.

I don't know what that means? Amtrak publishes a timetable, the times listed are not "suggested," unless you are making a joke that Amtrak trains are frequently late.

-otto-

Otto Vondrak wrote:

Benjamin Maggi wrote:

Otto Vondrak wrote: If it were up to me, I'd schedule the S&NC trains to depart within 45 minutes of the scheduled Amtrak arrival time. There must be a very good reason why the tentative schedules show such a gap in connections (unless I forgot how to read a timetable)?

It isn't so much forgetting how to read an Amtrak timetable as understanding that the times listed are frequently the "suggested" or "recommended" times. I was in Utica and looked at the Amtrak train board to see several trains were delayed... especially the long-distance ones.

I don't know what that means? Amtrak publishes a timetable, the times listed are not "suggested," unless you are making a joke that Amtrak trains are frequently late.

-otto-

Well, I guess they've gotten better. Really the only thing (I could be wrong) that holds the Amtrak trains in this area is because border patrol stops the trains to do inspections. I guess they can do that with any passenger train within 150 miles of the border.

Scenic train preps for maiden run in Warren, Saratoga counties
JON ALEXANDER | Posted: Saturday, June 4, 2011 7:43 pm
Warren County and Iowa Pacific only recently reached an agreement giving the company the right to run the line on tracks that are largely owned by the county. The lengthy negotiations between the parties has resulted in a last-minute push to market the line... Among Iowa Pacific's three travel packages is a scenic tour that will allow passengers to travel between North Creek and Hadley, stopping at the rail-side towns in between. The other summertime packages offer runs between North Creek and Saratoga Springs twice a day, feasibly allowing tourists from New York City to ride the rail all the way to North Creek.

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_ ... 002e0.html


Moderator note: Copying and pasting entire articles from other sources is a violation of copyright. A brief quote and a link back to the original is all that is needed. Thank you! -omv

quick google search shows that most of the major chains are represented there.

Almost any of them have shuttle buses that will pick you up or drop you off anywhere in Saratoga Springs. The "Thousand Acres" stop in Stony Creek is at the Thousand Acres Resort. The reception desk is short walk from the mini-high.

Otto Vondrak wrote:

D.Carleton wrote:It's still not clear how they will get clearance to run to the station in/near Saratoga.

I was under the impression they had already worked that out with Canadian Pacific. I think the only thing they are seeking at this point is regulatory approval from the STB. I don't think they would file an application with the STB to start service to Saratoga Springs if they did not have that critical agreement in place first.

Looking through the STB decisions it would appear S&NC has received exemption to operate the track owned by Warren County, the track owned by the town of Corinth, the CP Adirondack Branch and "approximately 3.2 miles of operating rights for the purpose of interchange with CP between Adirondack Branch milepost 39.44 and CP’s yard at Saratoga Springs located at Canadian Subdivision milepost 35."

Otto wrote:Of course, I could be dead-set wrong, too. But it would be really odd for them to take these steps if they hadn't at least started talking/negotiating with CP first.

-otto-

As for passenger service: "Saratoga [& North Creek] also intends to restore a rail passenger excursion service over the line." Remember, this is the same bunch that thought they had a deal with Amtrak for the Rio Grande Ski Train. I don't see CP playing dirty with S&NC but they will make sure they are indemnified before that first passenger loads. So far there's been nothing from CP and I'm not sure there has to be any involvement from the STB.

The only sticky widget I could see is if Amtrak for whatever reason says S&NC cannot use the Saratoga Springs station. That might be a moot point, as the station itself is a CDTA facility.

Wonder about union vs non union running across the CP main?? Unless we haven't gotten to this point yet..cab signals??? Or do they think they can just hop on any old time???

derail

The RFP covered use of the station Saratoga station (lease) and operating over CP. A detailed "CP Terms of Operation/Use" is a schedule in the RFP. It does not address union/non-union, but covers employees, equipment, rolling stock etc. A provision is for locomotives to be equipped with PTC in the future. Nothing about cab signals.

I doubt if there will be any union issues in this case, the employees will have to be qualified as required by the CP in order to use their trackage in this area, this means rules, physical characteristics and other stuff as well. This is not cab signal territory and is in fact not even near cab signal territory so cab signals are not an issue here.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:I doubt if there will be any union issues in this case, the employees will have to be qualified as required by the CP in order to use their trackage in this area, this means rules, physical characteristics and other stuff as well. This is not cab signal territory and is in fact not even near cab signal territory so cab signals are not an issue here.
Noel Weaver

I wouldn't foresee any issues with unions, either. Plenty of non-union shortlines like the B&H, FGLK, LA&L and WNYP operate on unionized lines owned by other RRs.