Cape May Seashore Lines-2010

Honestly, NJBuff, (and I don't mean this with any sarcasm) I don't know what changed between the printing of that article and the time the decision was made to not run according to the schedule. I can't imagine it was anything nefarious, though. There are very few people in our country who would look at an opportunity to make money and say "no" unless they were wealthy or had a very good reason.

Questions are good. The problem isn't with the questions being asked. The problem in this situation is with the way statements can be misconstrued, the way in which opinions on the operations of a business seem to need no grounding in the realities of actually running a business and the odd hypothetical that someone else might have done any better than Mr. Macrie has done.

Could communication be better? I guess, sure. Do we spend countless hours of our lives and a similarly countless number of keystrokes every time any other business in our country falls short of our expectations? I don't. I can't imagine any one of us bothering to level the sorts of accusations that fly around here at the owner of a Shop Rite if the iced cream they advertised as "on sale" didn't arrive. We would be annoyed...the least medicated of us here might think to go back to their little blog or whatever and rant about how the iced cream was really taken by the socialist Kenyan born owner of the store...and the rest of us who take our meds would realize that life has so many beauties in it that we are missing while being annoyed about iced cream and then drop the issue so we could go enjoy one of those beauties.

If the railroad (or any business) that you are attempting to patronize and spend your money on isn't being operated according to your standards you have the choice in our system to no longer be a patron of that business. I think it is very obvious that some people here are upset at the services of a business they would like to patronize. I don't like the poor service at Walmart or what they do to their workers, so I don't go there. I go to a different store, conduct my business and then let it slide. The CMSL isn't doing what you want. Okay, then don't patronize the business and find another provider of that service who will satisfy your needs or desires.

Semper,

Your logic is 100% spot on and correct if the CMSL did not accept public funds. Once again, everybody here is okay with the $1.3 million of tax money given to the CMSL? It seems nobody here will even touch this question.

Let's stop the pessimism and look at the bright side. In just 4 months and 4 weeks, we can start discussing the topic "Cape May Seashore Lines-2011"!
(I do want to use a ticket to ride the line.)

JimBoylan wrote:Let's stop the pessimism and look at the bright side. In just 4 months and 4 weeks, we can start discussing the topic "Cape May Seashore Lines-2011"!
(I do want to use a ticket to ride the line.)

Hahaha, good point... I can't wait to read it all over again!!!

JimBoylan wrote:Let's stop the pessimism and look at the bright side. In just 4 months and 4 weeks, we can start discussing the topic "Cape May Seashore Lines-2011"!
(I do want to use a ticket to ride the line.)

Hahaha, good point... I can't wait to read it all over again!!!

mgdemarco wrote:Semper,

Your logic is 100% spot on and correct if the CMSL did not accept public funds. Once again, everybody here is okay with the $1.3 million of tax money given to the CMSL? It seems nobody here will even touch this question.

Please cite the giving of public funds to CMSL. I'm unaware of any such largesse.
Public funds appropriated to improve NJDOT's railroad right of way benefit CMSL but do not go to CMSL.

chuchubob wrote:

mgdemarco wrote:Semper,

Your logic is 100% spot on and correct if the CMSL did not accept public funds. Once again, everybody here is okay with the $1.3 million of tax money given to the CMSL? It seems nobody here will even touch this question.

Please cite the giving of public funds to CMSL. I'm unaware of any such largesse.
Public funds appropriated to improve NJDOT's railroad right of way benefit CMSL but do not go to CMSL.

The source, which could as well be the cause of the misunderstanding, is the wording of the June 9, 2010 article in the Press of Atlantic City. In that article it was stated:

...In 2003, his (Macrie's) rail line received $851,355 from the New Jersey Department of Transportation State Rail Plan to rehabilitate a section of track between Tuckahoe and Woodbine as a way to open up the tracks to freight cars.
An additional $500,000 in public money went toward establishing a line to a local propane supplier and constructing a public team track, or secondary track.

The wording of the article clearly states that the CMSL received at least the $850k grant. That could well be wrong.

I have no idea whether, in fact, the grants went directly to the CMSL. It is very possible that the grants went to and were controlled by NJ DOT or another public agency. Certainly with the track improvements between Tuckahoe and Woodbine, the capital asset that was improved is owned by NJ DOT. I don't know if the new sidings are also owned by NJT. However, both grants were made at the request of the CMSL and solely for the benefit of the CMSL. The CMSL was not simply a casual beneficiary of the improvements made to the rail line. So, it is not a stretch to say that the grants went to the CMSL since the value of those improvements was only for use by the CMSL.

Both of these grants were made to support the establishment of freight service by the CMSL. Neither is directly related to the operation of tourist trains to either Cape May or Richland. One could question the CMSL getting the benefit of the grants and then not starting freight service, but I suspect that was a case of mis-reading the market. I'm not sure that either grant provides a public interest in knowing the reasons why the tourist trains are not operating.

My only caveat to that concerns the Canal Bridge. Public funds of some amount were recently spent to repair that bridge to allow the resumption of tourist trains into Cape May. Were I NJT, or whatever agency was the source of the funds to make the repairs, I might be interested why the bridge was fixed, and no trains are running. Presumably, the repair was made based on the assumed public benefit of the CMSL to the economy. There is no public benefit if there are no trains.

It's not a secret. It's just none of your business. There are those close to Toni that know why he is not/cannot run but they have been asked to keep the information in house. Hint: This site ain't in house! I think the best thing to do at this time is to lock this thread since it is just a seesaw going up and down about this subject. When Toni is ready to run, he'll let us all know.

Later!
Mr. Ed

I believe this is a forum where you can talk about your hobby and interests. Judging by the amount of action on this issue, there is substantial interest in this train service on the Cape May Branch. I don't think anyone has attacked Mr. Macrie or CMSL. I have met him, he is a nice person and a great rail historian but there is an obvious communication/ public relations problem it seems. I believe many of the people on this site would be riding an RDC on the CMSL if thery were operating to help the business. I did when they ran many times.

Whats wrong with wanting to know? We all love trains or would not be here on this site. To answer that "it's just none of your business" when talking about a company that relies on the public to buy tickets to support it's existance would never be the correct answer, even in a high school level business class. I don't think a first class business like Disney would ask to keep it "in house". Just a website update or an announcement would have stopped this thread from growing without asking for it to be locked.

I want to see CMSl run again. I will be on the train when it runs. I, like most of the others here, just want some simple information.

I can appreciate that it might not be economically feasible to start up
operations this year. I've passed by the Hyannis depot of The Cape Cod Central
on an almost daily basis for quite a few years,quite often at train time and
I don't see the crowds I saw before the recession took hold,but it probably
would have curtailed quite a bit of the speculation here and elsewhere had
there simply been a mid summer update on the website as to what the plans
for the rest of the season were.Plus, it's better for public relations in general
not to leave communities tourists and railfans alike in the dark with no
info at all.

The train will be running starting October.Check the Buena Vista twp NJ site.

south jersey trains wrote:The train will be running starting October.Check the Buena Vista twp NJ site.

Buena Vista has it on their website but the railroad doesn't on theirs.

south jersey trains wrote:The train will be running starting October.Check the Buena Vista twp NJ site.

Copied from the Buena Vista Twp Web-Site

Trains are"tentatively scheduled"to operate on the following dates
for the Fall and Winter 2010 Season
Saturday, October 16
Saturday, October 23
Saturday, November 6
Saturday, November 20
Saturday, November 27, & Sunday, November 28
Saturday, December 4 & Sunday, December 5
Saturday, December 11 & Sunday, December 12
Saturday, December 18 & Sunday, December 19

If I'm not mistaken, the above information states that trains are "tentatively scheduled" to run - correct? Take a look at the definition of the word tentatively and you will discover there really isn't a schedule at all.

I will now stand-by and await the - (said in a Thunder-Booming, echoing voice from atop Mount Olympis) Cape May Seashore Lines-2010 thread sensorship committee to delete my comment and lock the thread because they don't approve...

Gentlemen,

Does your employer update the public each and every time they decide to do something? I know mine doesn't and I could be fired for speaking out of turn. If you want to know so bad whats's going on go work for the man. Otherwise back down and wait it out. Yes it's disapointing that the trains aren't running yet
but life is full of disapointments.

As far as taxpayer money being spent ...... 1.3m is a drop in the bucket compared to what other companies have gotten and it was for freight not passenger. Let's see, 0.75 mil to temporarly repair a bridge. Over 10 mil to upgrade track with rail that had already been turned once and trains are still going on the ground damn near every time they run. Over 2 mil to repair a bridge that hasn't seen any revenue since it was repaired. The list can go on. I don't hear anyone complaining about the 2 mil.

Give it a rest

ironghost wrote:If you want to know so bad what’s going on go work for the man.

This statement of yours is all well and good, but how can this even be possible when a wheel barely ever turns down there? I know, I know, how dare I say such a sacrilegious thing against the CMSL – BLASPHEMER! Relax there Cape May Seashore Lines-2010 Thread Censorship Committee, I'm just saying that's all...

ironghost wrote:As far as taxpayer money being spent ...... 1.3m is a drop in the bucket compared to what other companies have gotten and it was for freight not passenger. Let's see, 0.75 mil to temporarly repair a bridge. Over 10 mil to upgrade track with rail that had already been turned once and trains are still going on the ground damn near every time they run. Over 2 mil to repair a bridge that hasn't seen any revenue since it was repaired. The list can go on. I don't hear anyone complaining about the 2 mil.

Yet another statement that is all well and good, but since the CMSL did accept some tax money (doesn't matter if it was for freight or not, it still benefits them as a whole) at least put some kind of statement out thanking those that support the service and continue to show some interest (fading as it may be) with some kind of idea of what may be happening - just stroke the public a little...