Cape May Seashore Lines-2010

Glenn, thanks for clarifying.

yes, thanks for clarifying..now the trains will run with no problems! tomorrow is july 15th and we should see some action!!

northjerseybuff wrote:yes, thanks for clarifying..now the trains will run with no problems! tomorrow is july 15th and we should see some action!!

Lets give em until July 30th before we throw in the towel.

Was in Cape May this week and will be there again next week. The damaged grade crossing at Rt 9 appears to have been fixed but there is still no word of any train service starting. The Cape May mall was crawling with people so IMO it would be a good time to run trains and capture the end of the tourist season.
Will it happen? One can only wait and see.
I also ventured out on the point line a bit and there is still planty of overgrowth there. We saw the flag lowering ceremony at Sunset Beach and it was overflowing with people. It would be nice taking the train to Sunset Beach but the work to get this portion of the line running would be enormous. The grade crossings are all gone and the trackage is in various stages of disrepair. As it now stands, you couldn't even travel the line with a speeder. Maybe one day!
More next week.

With all due respect to Cape May Seashore Lines and their valiant effort to restore some sort of service here, maybe it's time for a new operator. Maybe Cape May Seashore Lines should look to merge with a group that can help to get them going. Something is not right with this situation. With the volume of people in this area during the summer this operation should be a gold mine.

South Jersey Budd wrote:With all due respect to Cape May Seashore Lines and their valiant effort to restore some sort of service here, maybe it's time for a new operator. Maybe Cape May Seashore Lines should look to merge with a group that can help to get them going. Something is not right with this situation. With the volume of people in this area during the summer this operation should be a gold mine.

Here we go again!!
Sir, if you would kindly provide the millions of dollars needed to Upgrade the tracks between Tuckahoe and Cape May, then I'm sure they will gladly grant your request. Make check payable to CApe May Seashore Line, C/A Tony Macrie.

I applaud the effort for 10 or so years now but whatever plan CMSL had is not working. They got a good amount of money to fix between Cape May and Court House and to fix the Canal bridge. Why isn't he running there?

Cape May to Tuckahoe is too far for a tourist operation so I'll keep my millon dollar check.

Tell me how does Wilmington Western do it, New Hope, West Chester, Gettyysburg??? Who writes that check?

All I said was maybe it's time to get some help to get it going.

South Jersey Budd wrote:I applaud the effort for 10 or so years now but whatever plan CMSL had is not working. They got a good amount of money to fix between Cape May and Court House and to fix the Canal bridge. Why isn't he running there?

Cape May to Tuckahoe is too far for a tourist operation so I'll keep my millon dollar check.

Tell me how does Wilmington Western do it, New Hope, West Chester, Gettyysburg??? Who writes that check?

All I said was maybe it's time to get some help to get it going.

New Jersey's State funding for short lines is limited to facilitating freight service. Perhaps the other states contribute economic development funds for tourism railroads. NJ does not. See for example the Belvidere & Delaware River Railway site for its freight improvement projects. http://www.bdrry.com/ Some of these will indeed benefit our BRRHT passenger operation, but that is incidental to the freight service basis. If we could get state funding for our 501(c)(3) passenger operation, we would be in a position to reopen passenger service from Ringoes to Lambertville. But there are no freight customers south of Ringoes, and to my knowledge no current prospects, so funding is not available.

I do not believe that counties or municipalities are under any express prohibition, but given their precarious financial situation and need to maintain essential services such as police and basic education, funding to a private corporation for passenger rail is problematic at best.

One of the stumbling blocks for any such passenger operation is compliance with all FRA track and equipment standards, a not inconsequential expense.

Doesn't current safety regulations require frequent track inspections prior to use? (by pax carriers or all carriers?). It had been a while ago when it was discussed that the frequesnt track inspections were required before CMSL could run their Richland/Tuckahoe service. The inspection was estimated (as memory serves) around $5K per inspection. I also think I remember that the way CMSL got over that hump was that NS provided the necessary inspections to handle their Beesley Point runs along the same trackage?? My memory may be WAY off on the subject, but I would imagine that if CMSL has to fund that kind of fee for safety inspections regularly for the Cape May portion of the line, that would require huge capitol to make this happen for a daily service especially with no way to defray the cost. That's a hard financial nut to swallow when you only service a couple of hundred people a day. This may be part of the delay that Mr. Macrie must overcome on top of all the other operating costs they typically have to cover.

SJ Budd-

What is this now, round 12? Are we going to hear, again, about the 43 million that was supposedly spent on this line by the state? Just what money has Tony been given? And by whom?

This country had been in a recession, wether the government wants to admit it or not, for several years. It may not be the best time to start up a new tourist service that depends upon people spending what few discretionary dollars they most likely don't have on a train ride.

The other lines you mentioned (W&W, West Chester, NHIR and Gettysburg) have for the most part been around a lot longer than CMSL, but I suspect their passenger numbers have been way off for some time now. Last season's legal difficulties with Middle Township, since resolved, cost CMSL a bit of momentum, as well as some scarce cash that went to the attorneys.

Lets all back off and let the man run his business as he sees fit. And note that I said business; this is not a hobby. I'm sure Tony has done his homework, and has a plan for operating trains that will make money. This just may not be the right economic climate for doing it right now.

EDM

EDM5970 wrote:SJ Budd-


Lets all back off and let the man run his business as he sees fit. And note that I said business; this is not a hobby. I'm sure Tony has done his homework, and has a plan for operating trains that will make money. This just may not be the right economic climate for doing it right now.

EDM

That is a very good idea!

prsl7668 wrote:

David wrote:

EDM5970 wrote:SJ Budd-


How long do we have to wait for this so called plan? This RR started in what year?

CMSL has owned the line about 15 years now.

Since speculation is all we have, here's my two cents.

Unlike the Richland trains which use Conrail tracks, the Cape May service is 100% over tracks within CMLS responsibility. The FRA requires twice weekly inspection of tracks used by passenger trains - even tourist trains. Since the Richland trains only run on weekends (when they run), it is likely that the CMSL can get away with using the weekly Conrail inspection to meet the FRA requirements (if the inspection is timed to be late in the week).

For the Cape May service, the CMSL does not have a Conrail inspection to to use to satisfy the FRA. This inspection is a legal compliance issue and likely would require the CMSL to engage a contractor to meet the FRA requirements. That sort of work is not cheap - say between $500 and $1000 a pop (at least). Even if they could get a waiver from the FRA for once weekly inspections (if they ran trains weekends only), it is still a weekly expense that the CMSL has to absorb for Cape May that they do not have for Richland. Then, there is always the possibility that the inspections find defects. If that happens, either the defect are corrected (more cost), or the track is downgraded to FRA Excepted and no passengers can be carried. That is a huge risk. On the Richland end, defects are fixed by Conrail.

If the CMSL has no safe or politically acceptable location to store equipment between Cape May CH and Cape May, then you have to add the expense of ferrying equipment from Tuckahoe to Cape May CH and back again to run service, including the 10 miles or so at walking speed over the FRA Excepted track section south of Woodbine. That would eat up several hours - hours that count against the hours of service for the operating crew and thus would reduce the time available for revenue operation. So, before the CMSL can run one train to Cape May, they have to pay for track inspections and maybe even the cost to ferry equipment. - costs that they do not have to pay for Richland.

In my opinion, the question simply comes down to whether the Cape May service makes economic sense for the CMSL. Is the market there to provide the passenger counts and support the fares necessary to cover the total cost of the service and provide some net income to CMSL, or can they make more money running fewer trains and carrying fewer passengers to Richland since the CMSL's costs are much lower up there? If the later is true, and assuming Mr. Macrie is as good a businessman as he is purported to be, then I doubt we'll see Cape May service anytime soon.

I hope I'm proven wrong.

From a simple-minded approach, Mr Macrie stated that there would be Cape May service in 2010, so there should be Cape May service in 2010 unless some development that he can not control, such as another canal swing bridge breakdown or another noreaster that washes out track happens.

Lets go back three posts. Two points need a clarification right now-

1. I DID NOT ask SJ Budd how long we have to wait for this plan, or how long ago CMSL was started. Somehow I got misquoted-

2. CMSL operates under contract over state owned trackage. They do not own the line.

Also, I should have put the word BUSINESS in bold italicized caps in my previous post. CMSL in not a hobby nor a not-for-profit; trains are only operated if Tony feels they can make money. Apparently, not yet-