LIRR is PLanning more East of KO service

30 min locals on the port wash branch are impossible. Port wash is 18.1 miles from LIC, about 20 miles from penn. Factor in 11 stops for a local, at which the train is stationary, it is mathematicaly impossible to operate a local train going 20 miles, with twists and turns and 11 station stops in a half an hour. Even if a train ran 60 mph with no stops, it would be 20 minutes. The current timetable is about 44 minutes for a local, very good if you ask most people. Counting a few equipment trains, there are 60 eastbound trains to port wash every day, and 58 westbounds.The average express makes it from port wash to Ny in 35 minutes or so. PLEASE back off a little, Port wash branch has excellent service. You are starting to get hyper critical of the RR. To bash port wash service is really going over the edge.
Babylon is just shy of 40 miles from penn station. Without stopping at Forest hills, kew gardens, St albans, and lynbrook, there are still 15 stops to babylon. From Rockville centre to babylon, the stations are too close to each other for high speed trains. Not enough distance to build up a high rate of speed between stations. I was on an equipment train from NY to Babylon one time, and we really "opened her up" Did 80 almost the whole way, made it to babylon in just over 30 mins. Lets look at the timetable, and train 104. 104 leaves Penn station at 1235 PM and gets to Babylon at 148PM. That is only 13 minutes over an hour, with 15 stops. after lynbrook, the average time between stops is a mere 3 minutes. Allowing for breaking, people getting on and off the train at every stop, that is damm good. The average express makes it to NY in less then an hour. (train 110..leaves babylon 125, arrives NY at 221.. there are (counting equipment trains, and freeport trains) 97 eastbound trains that use the babylon branch every day, and 97 westbound also.
Now, about the route 110 remark. Route 110 runs from huntington, through farmingdale, to amityville.. on the port jeff branch, the RR runs 22 trains east from route 110 every day, and 22 west. On the mainline Runs 35 trains that go east of route 110, to KO, and 35 from KO west.
On the montauk, the RR runs 25 trains east of babylon, and 22 west. Thats 161 trains east of route 110, and I did not even count the trains to babylon.
The LIRR runs over 700 trains a day now, methinks you protest too much..
Its just getting silly in here. Stop and think before you write sometimes will ya geez.
This is why in another thread we warn people who are "buffs" to keep it under their hats. The RR tries not to hire buffs, because of the "I know better attitude" Have no clue of what it takes to run a rr.
I gave almost 34 years of my life to the LIRR, and trust me, Most of the people there are hard working individuals who try to do a good job.
Is there room for improvement? Yes. Just be reasonable. The RR does a damn good job on the Port wash and Babylon Branches.

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I agree. PW service is EXCELLENT and does not really need any changes. The only way it can improve is double track to PW, a bypass track at Murray Hill, and some intra-city service so a 7 subway extension can be made up to Whitestone instead of parallel to the PW line.

And the end of civilization mark for LIRR seems to be Rt 112, far more than 110. Even then, there is decent service to Speonk. And the Babylon line is great.

Nice discussion. I think the reason the LIRR was so off the mark for ridership when they electrified out to Ronkonkoma was they didn't factor in "if they build it, they will come". The 20 people per train doesn't hold up because 2hrs 50mins to go 96 miles is not service, thats 34mph! Who in there right mind is going to spend 6 hours a day commuting? They might consider it to go to the beach, but at 5:30 in the AM? How many of those jet setters would spend a whole lot more time at their summer homes if they could get that time down to hour and a half? What would happen to the housing market out there if NYC was that accessible? It stuff like that they didn't take in to account or only marginally did for Ronkonkoma. Look at Garden City, 26,000 pop., how many trains do they warrent? I bet if you tried to use existing formulas or whatever, without taking GC's unique demographics in to account, you wouldn't come close. How many units drive from out on the island to Ronkonkoma? I'm sure that would be a whole lot better than a 3 hour commute.....

I can't wait for all of this expanded service to the North Fork. With the way some are talking, this will bring all of those quaint East End towns within commuting distance to Manhattan. How many people have moved out east to get away from the hustle and bustle of the west end of Long Island? Nassau today resembles Brooklyn and Queens more and more. Western Suffolk is suffering the same fate.

Be careful what you wish for...you might be sorry when you get it.

Jay

RetiredLIRRConductor wrote: I am not being glib, I would just really like to know one thing.
The Railroad in fact DOES provide a rush hour train from Greenport in the morning. It leaves Greenport at 530 AM, , its connection at Ronkonkoma gets to Ny at 819. It also runs an east bound rush hour train leaving NY at 542PM, , that train makes hicksville, then Ronkonkoma. its connection leaves KO at 653. every night that train has no more then 20 people on it
If rush hour service is so desperatley needed, why does that train run with no more then 20 people on it every day? (except on friday nights during the summer, then it is crowded!

Simple. They make the line IMPOSSIBLE to use. What if you parked your car at let's say Yaphank, took the morning train in, and you got stuck at work. How many working people can get to Penn by 5:42 everyday to catch that ONE train? 5:42 PM is AWFUL early for the last train out. It's ridiculous actually.
Also there are PLENTY of people that need to be in Penn way before 8:19 AM.
So what do you do? You drive to Ronkonkoma instead. It's a chicken and egg scenario. They make the line impossible to use, so no one rides, no one rides, because the service is terrible, so they claim "low ridership". WHere the heck do they think many of those Ronkonkoma people are coming from? Many would be using Medford, Yaphank, Manorville if it existed, etc if they maintained at least somewhat of a usable service. The LIRR's got to realize it's not the 1950's anymore from ROnkonkoma to Riverhead.

RetiredLIRRConductor wrote:You dont have to be stuck in traffic, the RR provides a train out of Greenport at 530 Am, connection gets to NY at 817. No need to drive. When people start taking that train, then more will be added. No need to waste more equipment when the train that runs is empty.
Simple equation guys, if the train that runs is empty, no need to operate more. If I lived out east, and had to be to work at 9 or 10, that train is perfect. Yet hardly anyone rides it. You cant keep blaming the RR for that. Its there, its efficient, yet only 20 or so people ride it. It is not the RR's fault if people choose to drive to Ronkonkoma. They dont have to, they CHOOSE to. Anything that is said about adding service makes no sense untill the ridership requires it.

They do not choose to drive to Ronkonkoma, they are FORCED to. There are people that need to be in the city before 8:17, and can't have to worry everyday that they get to Penn by 5:15 to catch the ONLY return train. If they at least had "Speonk-like" service between Ronkonkoma and Riverhead, then many, many more people would use it. As it stands, they make it impossible to use any of those stations. East of Riverhead is not as important as Ronkonkoma to Riverhead. Riverhead and the towns west are not in the boondocks anymore, and all those people are FORCED to drive to Ronkonkoma.

RetiredLIRRConductor wrote:The RR owns land in Yaphank I believe that is where a yard is planned.

Maybe this is the first step...Maybe they are just improving the station area..I dont know.


Long Island Rail Road
Brief Description of Work
July 2006
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L07778
Remediate Landfill Property Yaphank, Long Island (LIRR)
$500K - $1M

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About a half of year ago, I was at an NRHS-LIST meeting in which the LIRR president spoke. Hem mentioned the long term goals are to electrify to Yaphank.

There goes the neighborhood.

At the presidents council meeting in 2004, Mr. Dermody mentioned the idea of extending electrification on the Main Line to Yaphank and a new station in Manorville where the tracks cross under the William Floyd Parkway. Needless to say this would be a progessive step for the LIRR, (if you've been on the LIE at rush hour, note the back up of cars getting off at exit 68) and thus I do not expect to see it.

An earlier poster mentioned Speonk as having good service, NOT EXACTLY!.
Speonk does have the most frequent service of any station close to the East End, BUT there are weird gaps in service that prevent Speonk
from being an attractive choice. As an example on weekdays, there is a gap from 11:00 AM to after 4:00 PM when there is NO service from NYC to Speonk, and on weekends, after the noon (ish) train to Montauk (that serves Speonk), there is not another train to Speonk until 7:30 PM.
Yet there are other times when Speonk has service every 30 to 60 minutes.

Ken

Yes I see what you mean by 542AM being early. Working for the RR for so long, we are used to weird hours. For example, the Conductor and Engineer of that train go to work at about 315 AM in Ronkonkoma, then take the equipment to Greenport. They get done around 120PM, after making another round trip to Greenport. So they get up no later then 2AM, and get home around 2PM.
Even on what we consider "Nice" Jobs that work during the day, the average crew has to be up by 5 or 6AM, to get to their terminal, get the trains ready, and get the people to work well before 9.
I personally preferred working in the afternoons when i could. The average afternoon job, which we call half-nights on the RR (Where are ya working Bob? Oh Half nights out of Brooklyn), start anywhere from 1 to 5 in the afternoons, and finish anywhere from 9pm, to 3am.
Who in their right minds would like to work those hours? railroaders!

I guess I'm a railroader at heart in that case. I'll go to sleep after class so I can wake up at 2am, do my work, then go straight to class at 8. Go to sleep at 6 and do it all over again

Peconic station, I understand exactly what you are saying about Speonk....however, I'd take 'Speonk-like" serivce anyday on the Mainline to Riverhead rather than what they offer!

OK... at Yaphank chasing a little freight, what is the huge pile of new ties being used for? Is there simple tie replacement going or something else being built.

There will be tie replacement starting early next year to Block Limit LD and in late spring from LD to End of Block Greenport. There will be bussing for passengers. There is some talk of 3rd rail to Yapank, but this will not happen for many, many years. There really needs to be better service to at least Riverhead. Unfortunately there is not enough equipment De/Dm or C-3 cars to supply any more service and the railroad is not going to buy anymore C-3 cars.