Pan Am Worcester Main Line

G&W (P&W) crews are not working the CSX trains between CP45 and Barber station. All CSX B&A crews are qualified over the P&W to Barber Station and then as far as Burncoat St. on the Worcester mainline. They are in the process of qualifying Selkirk crews all the way to Ayer, in fact those trains are in their own pool now. So eventually you won't see trains tied down along W. Boyleston St. in Worcester.

You can expect the second track between CP45 and Barber Station to be installed at some point, restoring the old yard by Garden St. is far less likely.

I don't see how it could be possible the have a line from CP45 to barber without rehabbing the dormant second line that just sits there. Once all Engineers are certified, I don't think another set of irons is necessary because the train wont recrew or tie down anymore. It will go straight through. P & W only uses that track usually once in the morning to Gardner, and the same crew coming back from Gardner with different cars around supper time.

Thanks for all the input gentlemen, givers me a better understanding of how things go along that section. One mention of a slim chance of any yard rebuild, but if the loads pickup noticeably from Maine on their way to Selkirk, can the yard by the station handle any more freight? That was the reason for my question on rebuilding even a small section of the old yard by Rte 290.

rustyrails wrote: ↑Mon Oct 23, 2023 7:33 pm I don't see how it could be possible the have a line from CP45 to barber without rehabbing the dormant second line that just sits there. Once all Engineers are certified, I don't think another set of irons is necessary because the train wont recrew or tie down anymore. It will go straight through. P & W only uses that track usually once in the morning to Gardner, and the same crew coming back from Gardner with different cars around supper time.

It's an operational bottleneck, it doesn't matter how many P&W trains use it per day. I just don't see CSX, after spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buy and upgrade Pan AM, leaving control of the access point with the rest of the system in the hands of another railroad. Especially since that link is main track yard limits.

I also would have to think there is going to be quite a few new train pairs added for the traffic they expect to see in the future. I know they didn't buy Pan Am just to run the 426/427 pair. Not to mention the NS pair soon to come. And please don't tell me about how they used to run X- many trains up there 20 years ago. I know, but the difference is that CSX owns it now. They have to care about service on the whole route.

I'd say they would be crazy to not just put the second track back in. They could get rid of the radio-controlled switches at Garden St. and Barber Station altogether. Totally separate from the P&W, DCS (track warrant) controlled form CP45 ally the way to Ayer by CSX.

A few more million to cut P&W out of the operations makes total sense to me.

Any info on the clearance work?

It's an operational bottleneck, it doesn't matter how many P&W trains use it per day. I just don't see CSX, after spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buy and upgrade Pan AM, leaving control of the access point with the rest of the system in the hands of another railroad. Especially since that link is main track yard limits.

I also would have to think there is going to be quite a few new train pairs added for the traffic they expect to see in the future. I know they didn't buy Pan Am just to run the 426/427 pair. Not to mention the NS pair soon to come. And please don't tell me about how they used to run X- many trains up there 20 years ago. I know, but the difference is that CSX owns it now. They have to care about service on the whole route.

I'd say they would be crazy to not just put the second track back in. They could get rid of the radio-controlled switches at Garden St. and Barber Station altogether. Totally separate from the P&W, DCS (track warrant) controlled form CP45 ally the way to Ayer by CSX.

A few more million to cut P&W out of the operations makes total sense to me.
[/quote]

A second line from CP45 just isn't going to happen. Even if you rehab the dead existing line that is there from Garden Street to New Bond Street, your not going to avoid the barriers with the downtown infrastructure. There is only one line running under St Vincents Hospital. That's never going to change and there's no way to run a second line from CP45 to Garden Street.

Not true about Worcester tunnel
There are already 2 tracks under the hospital and both are used. Single track starts to the east just before garden st

St. Vincent Hospital portal in the distance:

That photo is on the west side at school st looking east I believe

I stand Corrected
Thomas st viewing south

No that is looking railroad west (actual south) towards CP45. CSX trains use the left track, closer to the parking lot, and P&W the right track closer to the building. That right track goes directly to the P&W Worcester yard, you can't get to CP45 directly from that track.

I'm saying that CSX basically works out an agreement with P&W to put the track they already use under CSX control. Remove the switch at Garden St., which is pretty far behind the photographer, where it goes to single track and extend this track to Barber Station.

There is really no reason you couldn't do 25 through here, maybe after clearing the curve by Union Station.

They look pretty high but can anyone confirm that these two tunnels are high enough for double-stacks?

rustyrails wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:45 am It's an operational bottleneck, it doesn't matter how many P&W trains use it per day. I just don't see CSX, after spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buy and upgrade Pan AM, leaving control of the access point with the rest of the system in the hands of another railroad. Especially since that link is main track yard limits.

I also would have to think there is going to be quite a few new train pairs added for the traffic they expect to see in the future. I know they didn't buy Pan Am just to run the 426/427 pair. Not to mention the NS pair soon to come. And please don't tell me about how they used to run X- many trains up there 20 years ago. I know, but the difference is that CSX owns it now. They have to care about service on the whole route.

I'd say they would be crazy to not just put the second track back in. They could get rid of the radio-controlled switches at Garden St. and Barber Station altogether. Totally separate from the P&W, DCS (track warrant) controlled form CP45 ally the way to Ayer by CSX.

A few more million to cut P&W out of the operations makes total sense to me.

A second line from CP45 just isn't going to happen. Even if you rehab the dead existing line that is there from Garden Street to New Bond Street, your not going to avoid the barriers with the downtown infrastructure. There is only one line running under St Vincents Hospital. That's never going to change and there's no way to run a second line from CP45 to Garden Street.
[/quote]

The second track from CP45 to Garden St. already exists, that is the track that is used now by CSX. The other track goes directly to the P&W Worcester yard and can't be accessed from or to CP45 without making a reverse move, so it is never used by CSX.

F74265A wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 9:35 am That photo is on the west side at school st looking east I believe

I stand Corrected
Thomas st viewing south

I stand to be corrected. My apologies. Would CSX have to buy or lease the second track from P&W?

From information posted on this site, it looks like Guilford sold the ROW outright to the P&W. I was personally wrong about that. I thought Guilford (Pan AM) retained ownership of the ROW with the P&W leasing or having trackage rights. Therefore, since CSX bought Pan AM and its assets, they would also own that ROW. That appears to not be the case.

It being the case that G&W (P&W) appears to own the ROW would mean CSX would do some kind of lease agreement.

We are still in the very early stages of this deal, with the former Pan AM not really fully integrated into the CSX system. Paperwork issues, crew calling issues and more. It reminds me of a smaller scale version of the Conrail split.

I fully expect these operational bottlenecks in Worcester and Ayer will be addressed, and in far less time than it took to digest Conrail.

I don't see CSX either buying or leasing the "second track" from the P&W. I also don't expect that section to get removed from being yard limits either - from an operational standpoint, having it as yard limits actually makes things much more flexible and benefits CSX (believe it or not!).

Consider this scenario (which probably happens several days a week) - the P&W sends a crew up to Gardner with a track warrant giving them control of the branch. While the P&W crew is on the way up to Gardner, CSX shows up at Barbers and asks permission to enter the property.

Right now (with yard limits in effect) the P&W can let CSX come down to CP45 so long as they alert the Gardner crew to be on the lookout when coming back into the yard - total time taken by CSX to make the move from Barber-CP45 (at 10MPH) - 20 minutes.
If you move the yard limits back to Union Station, the Gardner crew has to either give up their track warrant, or CSX has to wait for the P&W to come back from Gardner (which could take 3-4 hours), and then get a track warrant to make the trip from Barber to CP45. Total time taken by CSX to make the move from Barber-CP45 (at 20MPH) - 10 minutes of running time + 3-4 hours of waiting.

Seems like a lot of hassle to save ~10 minutes at most.