Corona virus impacts on Amtrak

I thought about those but I don't think they will work because of the lack of HVAC for climate control. Others who work with this equipment in real life of course would know better ...

Talked to some Empire Builder people recently who said a couple dozen people out of Chicago was a good load these days, but half probably only going as far as Milwaukee given the Empire Builder filling in for cancelled Hiawatha trains. The story about a California Zephyr with only two aboard in Colorado probably wasn't out of line.

Anybody know if there's anything in particular to prevent Amtrak from axing any LD routes, at least temporarily? I'd guess the state-supported ones might have to be in coordination with the funding agencies. But could they simply pull the plug (at least temporarily) without much heat?

They should be able to "suspend" without any difficulty should they choose to. That being said there are a lot of labor implications that they may not want to trigger. They do have federal funding coming from the stimulus bill that is specifically designed to cover their losses.

It would be cheaper to pay the staff at contractual guarantees and save the fuel and host road charges. But they won't.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:01 pm They should be able to "suspend" without any difficulty should they choose to.

Nothing could be further than the truth. Part of the federal stimulus funding required Amtrak to remain open so the only way to shut down the National network is for Congress to shut it down. According to CFR 49 U.S. Code § 24101 Amtrak.Findings, mission, and goals, part of its responsibility is to operate in times of emergency:

49 U.S. Code § 24101.Findings, mission, and goals

<snip>
(9)provide additional or complementary intercity transportation service to ensure mobility in times of national disaster or other instances where other travel options are not adequately available;

Realistically, if someone made the decision, Amtrak would have to operate complimentary service upon demand. As long as Amtrak is funded, it is required to operate within its ability to do so.

They can alter the consist though.

SouthernRailway wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:30 am
Why isn’t Amtrak advertising its sleeping cars more these days? Being in an enclosed room is surely a good thing. This time, when I told co-workers that I am taking a Amtrak, to be in a private room, they thought that it’s a good idea. Last time I took Amtrak, before the pandemic, they thought that I was crazy.

With so many travel restrictions and outright bans for non-essential travel, I'm not sure Amtrak wants to advertise traveling right now.

ThirdRail7 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:03 pm Part of the federal stimulus funding required Amtrak to remain open so the only way to shut down the National network is for Congress to shut it down...
Realistically, if someone made the decision, Amtrak would have to operate complimentary service upon demand. As long as Amtrak is funded, it is required to operate within its ability to do so.

They can alter the consist though.

What would prevent Amtrak from reducing the LDs to once-a-week trains, to maintain the "national network" obligation but reduce service to an appropriate level?

I wasn't privy to most of the aspects of the funding requirements. There may be nothing to prevent it or something to prevent it. My guess is (as explained) since the funding was contingent on Amtrak operating to the best of its ability, the same people that said the Southwest Chief can't operate as a bus-bridge are the same people that would say if it is allowed to operate on a reduced schedule.

I have a feeling that if it was indeed a choice that was left to the current CEO, you wouldn't see the LD network. After all, it didn't seem like he wanted to run it under normal circumstances.

How can baggage cars be used when there is no HVAC installed ? Is there even any provision for units to be installed in these cars ?

ThirdRail7 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:03 pm

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:01 pm They should be able to "suspend" without any difficulty should they choose to.

Nothing could be further than the truth. Part of the federal stimulus funding required Amtrak to remain open so the only way to shut down the National network is for Congress to shut it down. According to CFR 49 U.S. Code § 24101 Amtrak.Findings, mission, and goals, part of its responsibility is to operate in times of emergency:

49 U.S. Code § 24101.Findings, mission, and goals

<snip>
(9)provide additional or complementary intercity transportation service to ensure mobility in times of national disaster or other instances where other travel options are not adequately available;

Realistically, if someone made the decision, Amtrak would have to operate complimentary service upon demand. As long as Amtrak is funded, it is required to operate within its ability to do so.

They can alter the consist though.

Are they required to run each line at full length to maintain that (minus any duplication)?

Here's the thing. I'm looking at the current reduction and cancellation listings... and I have to wonder why the Cali Zepher is split in two with no service Reno to Denver. That's basically all of Nevada, all of Utah, and half of Colorado cut off.

Meanwhile, the Palmetto is NYC to DC for three days. Why didn't they just cancel that? The stops were covered by the NEC and the Silver Meteor.

In fact, why didn't they just cancel the Vermonter, since it's basically the NEC now?

The southern portion of the Vermonter from NHV to WAS is essentially a northeast regional train and is funded by the NEC and staffed by NEC crews and it’s ridership is even credited to the northeast regional account. The state supported route is suspended. They obviously wanted to run a train in that time slot hence they continued it.

east point wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:38 amHow can baggage cars be used when there is no HVAC installed ? Is there even any provision for units to be installed in these cars ?

My question as well. But I thought Tadman's point with regards to doors was quite prescient. Again, to the best of my knowledge there are not any HVAC systems on the baggage cars. If only for the sake of discussion here it would be nice to know for sure.

I would note that rigging up "temporary" HVAC for emergency use only might be doable but it seems pointless given the existence of cars with perfectly good existing systems that may be more easily adapted.

My impression remains that being able to disperse patients, in particular those who are hospitalized but stable could be very helpful to the hardest hit areas. Amtrak's biggest facilities and infrastructure coincide with the areas with the greatest demand on the hospitals (New York, New Jersey, New Orleans, Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles).

Amtrak also has hundreds of accessible station facilities in communities which have available hospital capacity and could potentially receive patients.

Observed:
#5(5) "Denver Zephyr": 2 P-42, Sleeper, Diner, Lounge, Coach, Coach-Bagg: 5 cars.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:53 pm

east point wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:38 amHow can baggage cars be used when there is no HVAC installed ? Is there even any provision for units to be installed in these cars ?

My question as well. But I thought Tadman's point with regards to doors was quite prescient. Again, to the best of my knowledge there are not any HVAC systems on the baggage cars. If only for the sake of discussion here it would be nice to know for sure.

I mean it would take a lot less work to install a handful of RV air con units (like you see on top of Metra engines) on top of baggage cars than it would to make a sleeper or coach capable of carrying people on rolly-beds like you see hospitals using. You'd have to cut a door, take out the seats, maybe remove baggage racks.

But I doubt this goes much beyond guys chewing the fat on the internet.

I've been here long enough to know these conversations are seen by a very wide audience. The concept is worth discussing if only for the sake of understanding feasibility.

Interesting point with regards to roof top units. Those are definitely easy to come by and there's probably some power up there for lighting anyways. On the other hand you would need some kind of low voltage as RV units don't run on 480 VAC. You would also need sufficient current.

I took a look at some of the online photos of those cars. They appear to have heat but no A/C (roof fan ventilation only).

The Horizon cars still seem more attractive but I totally agree that without the ability to roll on and roll off in a hospital bed this is a very unattractive option for loading.

An alternative option might be to transport using EMS style gurneys. In that scenario you could have a single baggage car on one end serving as the point of entry or exit and then roll on and off the train using trainline doors to all cars.