Two tickets to Pittsburgh

Source

Improving rail passenger service in Western Pennsylvania has been the subject of multiple studies since 2005. Advocacy groups in the Pittsburgh region have attempted to get additional frequencies of passenger train service in the corridor stretching from Pittsburgh to Latrobe and Greensburg, continuing on to Johnstown and Altoona. Their efforts have not yielded any tangible results.

At an August 2019 Pennsylvania House of Representatives Transportation Committee hearing, it became apparent that all the parties were talking past each other, and that with each passing study and each passing hearing, the level of frustration has only intensified. Yet, to me it was apparent that there were options that were either not being considered or being ignored, deliberately or inadvertently.

Because of my involvement with the Transportation Committee since 2015, attempting to educate it about railroad-related issues in Pennsylvania, I started on “a clean sheet of paper” to ferret out a realistic set of solutions. Surprisingly, the exercise took me from Pittsburgh back to Philadelphia to stake out an initial proposal to provide an incremental solution for the people in the western part of the state.

The solutions for improving rail passenger opportunities for the Pittsburgh region are dependent upon examining the Commonwealth’s financial obligations and commitments to Amtrak for service on the Harrisburg Line, which runs between Philadelphia and Harrisburg.
...
Therefore, the initial step in crafting a solution in the Pittsburgh region is to divorce Amtrak by having the USDOT cede the Harrisburg Line to the Commonwealth and let SEPTA provide the existing Keystone service. Under such a plan, Pennsylvania cuts out the “middleman”—Amtrak—and the Commonwealth’s taxpayers get far better value for every dollar they spend on passenger rail service. Pennsylvania taxpayers and passenger rail riders win. As for the existing Keystone service between Philadelphia and New York, Amtrak would continue to operate it as NEC Northeast Regional trains.

Thoughts? Considering the success of North Carolina’s State-run program, I’m inclined to agree with Mr. Levin.

Does this mean they'll take the bathrooms out of the keystone trains?

MelroseMatt wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:29 pm Does this mean they'll take the bathrooms out of the keystone trains?

Considering any trip over 50 miles is federally mandated to have a bathroom, no.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Intuitively, the fewer layers of burocracy the better. I'm sure with funding and motivation, septa could handle a route to Harrisburg.

But what was the eventual plan for the Harrisburg to Pittsburgh segment? Hire Virgin Trains? Maybe they'd be in a better position to handle the Philly to Harrisburg route as well?

Also, what percentage of keystone riders travel *through* Philly, and not *to* Philly? This is the group that may push back the hardest at any proposal that takes away their one seat ride.

MelroseMatt wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:12 am Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Intuitively, the fewer layers of burocracy the better. I'm sure with funding and motivation, septa could handle a route to Harrisburg.

But what was the eventual plan for the Harrisburg to Pittsburgh segment? Hire Virgin Trains? Maybe they'd be in a better position to handle the Philly to Harrisburg route as well?

Also, what percentage of keystone riders travel *through* Philly, and not *to* Philly? This is the group that may push back the hardest at any proposal that takes away their one seat ride.

I don't have the exact numbers, but anecdotally it seems like a good percentage of riders are not stopping in Philadelphia. Eliminating the train change at 30th Street has really helped the Keystone Service. I have heard people say they use it specifically because it is a one seat ride even though it would be cheaper to go to 30th Street on SEPTA and get a Northeast Regional.

I posted my thoughts on the Amtrak thread, but in general this is a bad idea from my perspective. If anything, I have wondered for awhile if moving SEPTA's services into a contract service under Amtrak like the Penn Lines for MARC would be a better alternative. It would be a better deal for the crews and it could actually lead to some serious service level expectations that cannot be imposed upon SEPTA, but could be imposed upon Amtrak by contract. It would eliminate some of the inherent conflict between SEPTA and Amtrak.

The folks who oversee the San Joaquin line in California are also considering ditching Amtrak

If you wanted to maintain the route as it is..
you'd have deal in NJ & NY as well..
As is,it's tri-state train..
Agreed ,this proposal is for nothing more
than Philly-Pitt. service but The Pennsylvanian
is the only direct rail service from west of Harrisburg to NYC
in Pa.

MickD wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:50 pm If you wanted to maintain the route as it is..
you'd have deal in NJ & NY as well..
As is,it's tri-state train..
Agreed ,this proposal is for nothing more
than Philly-Pitt. service but The Pennsylvanian
is the only direct rail service from west of Harrisburg to NYC
in Pa.

Would a Pittsburgh to Harrisburg service even be able to run if it wasn’t Amtrak? Norfolk Southern would have all the incentive to make it as difficult and expensive as possible. At least Amtrak can force them to operate trains over the Pittsburgh Line. PennDOT nor can a private operator force Norfolk Southern to do anything. I guess in theory the Commonwealth could seize via eminent domain, but I suspect the fair market value of the Pittsburgh Line is in the billions. Even after that, would Amtrak allow this service to operate on the Main Line? This idea is the ramblings of a person whose bitter.

The on board experience is night-and-day different. This is asinine.

ryanov wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:17 am The on board experience is night-and-day different. This is asinine.

I have to agree. I know a few folks that commute using the Keystone instead of Paoli/Thorndale because it's much more comfortable. SEPTA doesn't provide nearly the class of service required to handle trips to Harrisburg, let alone Pittsburgh.

dcipjr wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:56 am

ryanov wrote: ↑Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:17 am The on board experience is night-and-day different. This is asinine.

I have to agree. I know a few folks that commute using the Keystone instead of Paoli/Thorndale because it's much more comfortable. SEPTA doesn't provide nearly the class of service required to handle trips to Harrisburg, let alone Pittsburgh.

SEPTA could buy older stock for sale, such as amfleets, or buy new stock and redo the interiors in order to make the seats more comfortable for the trip to Pittsburgh.