NEC All Station Stop Service

Station Aficionado wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:19 pm

John_Perkowski wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:18 pm Until we see something in writing from 60 Mass, let’s call this one unsubstantiated rumor, shall we?

But it’s so fun to speculate about the return of the Chesapeake.

SA (and Everyone):
I recall the Chesapeake (PHL-WAS) that ran as a long commuter run back in the
late 1970s/early 1980s era using (regularly two) Jersey Arrow MU cars...
Trains #420 and #421 stops were:
Philadelphia 30th Street
Chester, PA
Wilmington
Newark, DE
Elkton, MD
Perryville
Aberdeen
Edgewood
Baltimore
Odenton
Bowie
Capitol Beltway
Washington, DC

This local service was subsidized by the Maryland Department of Transportation and
PennDot - there was no Delaware contribution for this train. This schedule was shown
on MDOT/Conrail card timetables for Baltimore-Washington train service (which would
eventually evolve into the MARC Penn Line service for those that do not remember).

Thanks to experimental-type services such as the Chesapeake this showed that long
distance commuter trains can work along with co-operation between Amtrak and
state or local commuter authorities...MACTRAXX

rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:54 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:33 am There's one other possibility: Extending existing commuter rail service to "match all the ends"

That means MARC to Wilmington, VRE further into Virginia, and Metro North/Shoreline East/MBTA being stretched to cover the north end.

That's going to need a lot of coordination, and in Virginia, a lot of money to work with CSX.

How about this idea for expanded local service between NYP and WAS: MARC runs WAS to WIL, SEPTA runs WIL to TRE via the lower level of 30th or track 5 at Suburban, and NJT takes TRE to NYP.

RW, RCT and Everyone:
Linking up SEPTA/DelDot service and MARC trains in Delaware has been something
that groups such as DVARP has been advocating for decades...The problem is how
and where does the transfer point gets set up-Wilmington or Newark?

MARC could run to Wilmington if Delaware was to subsidize extended service with
both SEPTA and MARC operated trains "overlapping" one another in Delaware.

The Philadelphia Suburban Station turn-around idea is interesting since it could use
Tracks 0 or 5 with a stop of around 5 minutes to allow the crew to change ends and
make a quick brake test. Using the lower level of 30th Street Station running is less
desirable running NRK or WIL-TRE because of the transfer for CCP riders to the upper
level. There may have to be negotiations with Amtrak for a lower level run-through
permanent service option.

Another mention has to be through PHL-NYP joint SEPTA and NJT commuter runs
which again rail advocacy groups have long been supporting...There are other
topics and discussions elsewhere on this subject in respective forums...MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:13 am RW, RCT and Everyone:
Linking up SEPTA/DelDot service and MARC trains in Delaware has been something
that groups such as DVARP has been advocating for decades...The problem is how
and where does the transfer point gets set up-Wilmington or Newark?

MARC could run to Wilmington if Delaware was to subsidize extended service with
both SEPTA and MARC operated trains "overlapping" one another in Delaware.

Wilmington. All three tracks have platforms and it's a major station (SEPTA/Amtrak). The only issue is timing.

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:37 am SA (and Everyone):
I recall the Chesapeake (PHL-WAS) that ran as a long commuter run back in the
late 1970s/early 1980s era using (regularly two) Jersey Arrow MU cars...
Trains #420 and #421 stops were:
Philadelphia 30th Street
Chester, PA
Wilmington
Newark, DE
Elkton, MD
Perryville
Aberdeen
Edgewood
Baltimore
Odenton
Bowie
Capitol Beltway
Washington, DC

This local service was subsidized by the Maryland Department of Transportation and
PennDot - there was no Delaware contribution for this train. This schedule was shown
on MDOT/Conrail card timetables for Baltimore-Washington train service (which would
eventually evolve into the MARC Penn Line service for those that do not remember).

Thanks to experimental-type services such as the Chesapeake this showed that long
distance commuter trains can work along with co-operation between Amtrak and
state or local commuter authorities...MACTRAXX

That may actually slot a bit more in the "all local service" envisioned by Anderson instead of the "super-local" commuter option, now that I think a bit more about it (and had more coffee). Lets assume we can break up a version of the Regional into two hour "all local" sections: WAS/PHL, PHL/NYP, NYP/BOS. The Chesapeake, the Manhattan, and the Bostonian. Each train will be running for no more than two hours per trip. "All Local" would be all Amtrak stops. (The Keystone for the Manhattan is a tempting alternative but it's scheduled to run express between PHL and NYP)

RW: Keep in mind each section you note of the NEC is a considerably different distance:
WAS-PHL is about 135 miles
PHL-NYP is 90 miles
NYP-BOS is about 230 miles
With different distances running times will reflect that. Only PHL-NYP would be in
or under the two hour threshold here...
These third-tier all-stop trains could offer lower cost alternative NEC services...

MACTRAXX

I look forward to riding the restored Bunker Hill, New Haven-Boston.

This seems like a good place for commuter equipment, or at least high-density cars. The Horizon fleet would actually work alright for this service I think - presumably there won’t be as high a load at each individual station, so manual doors wouldn’t be as much of a limitation.

ebtmikado wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:30 am I look forward to riding the restored Bunker Hill, New Haven-Boston.

I think that was the Beacon Hill, that ran 1978 - 1981.
Could we find some restored Roger Williams RDC's to run it with?

Some all-stops trains make a lot of sense; even though they are slower, they are faster than changing trains for anyone who wants to go to or from one of the added stops. With two levels of express service for big-city passengers in a hurry, it sounds like a good idea to add a few stops to the other trains for small-city passengers in a hurry. And I hope this plan is real and that they work it using BOS-WAS trains. The Mystic-PJC, Waverly-NRK, etc., market (we could call it the "through New York" market) is real and there's no reason not to arrange some trains to serve that market with fairly frequent one-seat rides. It sounds like we're talking an extra twenty minutes or half an hour BOS-WAS in order to do this. Even if it's an hour, that's fine. End-to-end passengers can either pay for an express or spend a little time to save a little money.

Could the all-stops trains be timed to cross some of the drawbridges on the same bridge-closings as an express and/or as a train in the other direction? I realize that would mean better timekeeping than Amtrak often manages, even on the NEC, but is is workable in theory? (E.g. eastbound all-stops x is stopped at New London. The draw comes down. Westbound express y passes by without stopping; all-stops z crosses the bridge. With the right track configuration maybe an eastbound express could overtake the eastbound all-stops during the same bridge closing. Bridge is closed 5 or 10 mins for three trains. Is this the sort of thing that is crazy, or doable with current tracks, or doable with an extra crossover or siding here and there, or doable only with major investment? (Is there even a drawbridge at New London? But that's beside the point; you understand what I'm asking.)

MACTRAXX wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:49 am RW: Keep in mind each section you note of the NEC is a considerably different distance:
WAS-PHL is about 135 miles
PHL-NYP is 90 miles
NYP-BOS is about 230 miles
With different distances running times will reflect that. Only PHL-NYP would be in
or under the two hour threshold here...
These third-tier all-stop trains could offer lower cost alternative NEC services...

Yeah. I'm using the NEC holiday schedule for figuring it out (worse case senario maybe?). I'd have to fudge it to three hours, and even then I'd have to break it up at New Haven, CT and settle for four train lines, one that would essentially be "express" even if it was "all local". It also gets into turning the trains back and if there's enough room. I would think WAS, PHL, NYP, and BOS would be easy candidates, but now I have to consider Hew Haven...

I think Arborway has the best grasp of the premise. AS demonstatred, you're basically adding a few more stops to your existing trains to made it a a local. Additionally, adding more stops to certain trains makes your express look faster.

BTW, 171 and 176 also make L'Enfant Plaza.

ThirdRail7 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:23 amBTW, 171 and 176 also make L'Enfant Plaza.

I could have SWORN I saw a southbound Regional stop at L’Enfant yesterday!

Anything that could finally push the Inland route back into existence is good news for me.

I desperately need more connections in Worcester without having to backtrack to Boston. Look West!

IMHO, as commuter service grows and expands on the NEC, I'd imagine that Amtrak would want to CUT stops. Why they haven't yet on the Hartford Line, I don't know.

Probably because they are still trying to let the service pattern even out. It takes a couple of years and they also are probably trying to ensure the corridor as a whole is successful.

I am struck by the long term implications for Amtrak with the expected changes to service mix on the Northeast Corridor. It would seem that train consist lengths might be increasing if the Northeast Regonal services are partially replaced by the additional Acela services.