by Triplecap
Yes you can still buy paper tickets at the windows at suburban when they are open.
Railroad Forums
Moderator: AlexC
NorthPennLimited wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:33 pmA recent article in the Philadelphia Inquirer noted the cost of implementing SEPTA Key has hit $200 million.That's why they have to charge $4.95 for the cards, eliminate tokens, unlimited ride passes, paper transfers, and 2nd retransfers. All of those increases help cover the costs.
That’s a staggering number when you think of it in terms of return on investment.
dcipjr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am More details on the Key rollout are in this article.Why not just charge you for zone 4 if you don't tap out on the wallet or a fee if you don't have a zone 4 pass? It would work just like the Turnpike if you lose your ticket. You get charged the max rate.
It sounds like they plan on charging a fee for people who forget to tap out.
Considering that most stations that I've seen only have a few platform validators, I can imagine that it'll be a mess with people queuing up to tap out before heading to their cars, especially in the rain.
rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:40 am Why not just charge you for zone 4 if you don't tap out on the wallet or a fee if you don't have a zone 4 pass? It would work just like the Turnpike if you lose your ticket. You get charged the max rate.I wouldn't consider the 2 situations to be equivalent. The Turnpike has multiple booths at every exit which limits backups even at rush hour, plus even if you're paying in cash there's protection from the weather. If e.g. 50 people regularly exit a particular train but the station has only two validators that's going to create long backups even in good weather. I don't want to think what it would be like in a December sleet storm.
rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:40 am Why not just charge you for zone 4 if you don't tap out on the wallet or a fee if you don't have a zone 4 pass? It would work just like the Turnpike if you lose your ticket. You get charged the max rate.I wouldn't consider the 2 situations to be equivalent. The Turnpike has multiple booths at every exit which limits backups even at rush hour, plus even if you're paying in cash there's protection from the weather. But if e.g. 50 people regularly exit a particular train but the station has only two validators that's going to create long backups even in good weather. I don't want to think what it would be like in a December sleet storm.
JimBoylan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:13 pm [Will]They make more money with a fee than by charging the difference in fare?Excellent points. I think we can add those questions to the OOOPS! list, along with oversights like transit zone charges, senior RRD fares, etc. that no one bothered to consider. DC Metro has Exit Fare machines at every station to cover people who overdraw their SmarTrip balance. I can't see SEPTA managing anything comparable.
How will the travel wallet work if you want to ride and have enough to cover the fare, but not the fee and the fare? Will someone with an Anywhere pass still be charged a fee?
rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:40 am Why not just charge you for zone 4 if you don't tap out on the wallet or a fee if you don't have a zone 4 pass? It would work just like the Turnpike if you lose your ticket. You get charged the max rate.The $3.75 that they are charging is the same as the fare between stations on the same RR line. So, if you have a Zone 2 pass and do not tap off, you get charged an additional $3.75 as though you were continuing past Zone 2 to the end of the line, whether it is a Zone 3, 4, or NJ.
dcipjr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am Considering that most stations that I've seen only have a few platform validators, I can imagine that it'll be a mess with people queuing up to tap out before heading to their cars, especially in the rain.It appears that SEPTA placed a ride validator at each entrance/exit to the station platform. But, one validator at each stairway/break in the fence is woefully inadequate. There should be one on each side of the entrance/exit to help expedite the crowds. The parking lot is already a free-for-all without people stopping to close trips since everyone is rushing to be the first one out.
R3 Passenger wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:58 pmI tap on the opposite side in the evening because I have to walk by several of them on the outbound platform. It works, but not something I think most will think of initially.rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:40 am Why not just charge you for zone 4 if you don't tap out on the wallet or a fee if you don't have a zone 4 pass? It would work just like the Turnpike if you lose your ticket. You get charged the max rate.The $3.75 that they are charging is the same as the fare between stations on the same RR line. So, if you have a Zone 2 pass and do not tap off, you get charged an additional $3.75 as though you were continuing past Zone 2 to the end of the line, whether it is a Zone 3, 4, or NJ.
Reading back on my above comment, how does that work if it is a Zone 3 pass? Is the time of day and direction taken into account? Zone 3 passes have anywhere status outside of rush hour peak direction.
dcipjr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am Considering that most stations that I've seen only have a few platform validators, I can imagine that it'll be a mess with people queuing up to tap out before heading to their cars, especially in the rain.It appears that SEPTA placed a ride validator at each entrance/exit to the station platform. But, one validator at each stairway/break in the fence is woefully inadequate. There should be one on each side of the entrance/exit to help expedite the crowds. The parking lot is already a free-for-all without people stopping to close trips since everyone is rushing to be the first one out.
Also, it appears that the parking validators can also open and close trips at the stations. I think I will try using that tonight.
rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:40 pmI am dumbfounded by requiring people to tap out on the outbound side if they have a pass. Just don’t make Zone 2 passes work in Zone 4 for example. Unless you are on a train that serves one zone it is impossible to aggressively track zones with legacy passes.Well conductors seem to have no problems tracking zones with legacy passes (even during off-peak).
rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:40 pm I am dumbfounded by requiring people to tap out on the outbound side if they have a pass. Just don’t make Zone 2 passes work in Zone 4 for example. Unless you are on a train that serves one zone it is impossible to aggressively track zones with legacy passes.Legacy passes are able to be visually inspected easily by the conductors and ACs. The Key cards require a scan, if the scanners are working.
BuddCar711 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:40 amI agree on off-peak it is easier to visually inspect, but on most crowded evening trains such inspections are not happening with even legacy passes. My point of reference might be bad though as almost every evening rush hour train I take have numerous people standing. Fare inspection seems to be stronger on inbound trains from my experience, which probably deters people from buying a zone 3 pass and using it in zone 4 every day.rcthompson04 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:40 pmI am dumbfounded by requiring people to tap out on the outbound side if they have a pass. Just don’t make Zone 2 passes work in Zone 4 for example. Unless you are on a train that serves one zone it is impossible to aggressively track zones with legacy passes.Well conductors seem to have no problems tracking zones with legacy passes (even during off-peak).