Hoosier State Discussion (both Amtrak and Iowa Pacific)

But I get the sense that it was the fastest route not because it was the most inherently superior way to get between the two cities as it was the most developed

bdawe wrote:But I get the sense that it was the fastest route not because it was the most inherently superior way to get between the two cities as it was the most developed

WIthout deep investigation I'd assume the faster route would have had more tangent track and more multiple track or sidings dedicated for passing.
Zoomed out most lines look fairly straight but some do more meandering than running tangents.

The best route to get between two cities is easier than the best route to serve a corridor. I'm sure we could draw a more tangent route to get out of Chicago - I'm not sure any freight roads would use that route, and a passenger only route is beyond the budget.

Nasadowsk wrote:

David Benton wrote:British Rail did a pretty good job overall. Certainly wasn't lacking in innovation. What followed cost more, and was dysfunctional to the point of fatal accidents.

https://i.imgur.com/m7Rg9IA.jpg

They sure did a pretty good job at killing ridership....

Since they've been dumped, ridership has more than doubled. How is privatization a failure, again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railtrack" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Ridership had already begun to increase before British Rail was privatised as well , but it was the safety failures that came from privatisation I am referring to .

Now to return Stateside, after our "diversion across the ditch", I dragged out a "Thousand and One", aka NYC Form 1001 Public TT from '51, and noted the "four a day" Cinci to IC Station.

Also of note, let the Googlemobile drive you around Colfax, IN, which is one of the communities through which the now torn up CCC&StL, bka The Big Four, operated. Be it noted neither the Riley nor Sycamore stopped there.

In order again to have the 3.5hr CHI-IND service noted by Col. Perkowski, the Big Four would need to be relaid, and The Bill and Tom McKinsey Walking Trail covering some of the ROW would be no more.

Now what are the Good Folk there, as well as any other community through which the Big Four once ran, think of trains tearing through @110mph, horns blaring, and hoping the young 'uns, and the old 'uns, would have the sense to stay away?

Don't think that would go down well.

In short, any "enhanced" CHI-IND service would need be over one "Jerry Rigged" route or the other, as it is now.

ryanov wrote:

Tadman wrote:

ryanov wrote: it's not a given that private employers can do things smarter and more efficient (also, Delta does much of their own heavy maintenance).

There is clear and convincing evidence that the government is absolutely awful at doing things in comparison to private employers. Post Office? Amtrak? British Rail? British Air? Anything in venezuela?

I guess you imagine that repeating something several times is the same as supporting evidence? None of the examples you've provided are even any good, as if listing names of companies could be considered a cogent argument. The Post Office was doing fine before elected officials forced them to monkey around with their pension calculations. The privatization of British Rail certainly isn't without its problems. Venezula? We're getting pretty far off topic, but I suspect we don't see eye to eye on that one.

Personally, I wish you'd keep your religion out of the forum.

I repeat it continually because the numbers back me up.

British ridership was in continual decline under BR, and has more than doubled under privatisation. See the same chart I link every time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatisa ... 0-2015.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've probably linked to this chart ten times on this site, and I'll do it a hundred times more. You're just plain wrong. Socialism failed here.

As for the post office, UPS and Fedex wouldn't be in business if they knew their a** from a hole in the ground. I spent a half hour at the post office yesterday and they couldn't find my package despite having a tracking number. They literally asked me what it looked like. Uh, a brown box?

As for Venezuela, are we not going to pretend it is a humanitarian disaster? The promise of socialist paradise is yet again ending with a dear leader driving tanks over his citizens. Here you go, socialist paradise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxaOmWaI8sI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your religion is killing people again. Seriously, watch this video a few times and tell me you can justify starving your citizens and then running them over.

"Meanwhile, Back In The States", if there ever were to be the initiative to rebuild a Big Four H(er)SR, I would hope that proper legislative restraints would be in place to avoid reoccurrence of the CHI-STL debacle resulting in the taxpayers building Uncle Pete a new line to access Chicago.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:"Meanwhile, Back In The States", if there ever were to be the initiative to rebuild a Big Four H(er)SR, I would hope that proper legislative restraints would be in place to avoid reoccurrence of the CHI-STL debacle resulting in the taxpayers building Uncle Pete a new line to access Chicago.

Yes but according to some of us, government does better than private business.

Still waiting for that STL higher speed thingy... Or that Northwest Indiana third main to work... the one about a mile south of the electrified state-owned double track main.


tick...

tick...

The thought that a private business would hand over millions for such improvements without better controls is batsh** nuts. I'm sure Governor Holcomb looks at the Amtrak bill every month and says "you want me to pay one third of the South Shore's bill for one train per day????". I'm also sure he's learned what "SMH" means.

It look like Gov. Holcomb has "taken over" the South Shore. Along with putting up money for the West Lake Corridor and the double track project,
the composition of the NICTD board has been changed.
Previously, the board consisted of 11 members appointed by the governor and the four counties served by the railroad. It consists of five members, all state-appointed. Two members representing South Shore riders and employees are now longer part of the board. Whether this is for good or evil will soon be seen.

ADMIN: Keep it to the Hoosier.

CarterB wrote:Wasn't the old IC NYC James Whitcomb Riley route the fastest to Indy from Chi?

Much of that trackage (at least, Kankakee-Lafayette) is now in the hands of short line operator Kankakee, Beaverville and Southern. It might take quite a bit of work to get it back into shape for passenger service, especially if they don't want to make it an overnight trip.

I don't know the details of that area, but a short-line operator should be more amenable to passenger operation than a Class-I. What short line doesn't want free track upgrades?

Totally agree, but the KB&S is not exactly 40mph rail looking for 79. From what I understand a lot of it is 20-ish mph, meaning a serious revamp. You've also got the issue that the KB&S was former Big 4/NYC, which means it completely misses Northwest Indiana yet services the Chicago south suburbs and exurbs like Kankakee and Homewood-Flossmoor. That's hard to swallow in a Indiana-supported train. Granted the South Shore services NW Indiana well, but only for Chicago-bound. Finally, the KB&S on runs as far south as Lafayette, meaning the Cardinal's very indirect route into downtown is still in play. For those not familiar, the train enters the metro area at 11 o'clock, then runs like a bypass to 9 o'clock, heads toward Avon yard, then dips to 8 o'clock, then heads downtown. It's not amazing or fast. The Monon ROW is now a bike train, which was once the preferred route. I have no idea how the South Wind or JW Riley once entered town, but I assume it's gone as well.

You can kind of see it on this map if you look closely and compare it to a timetable: https://www.in.gov/indot/files/2017%20I ... %20Map.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's be happy that at least, the Cardinal will continue to run and who knows-someday, it might run seven days a week.

The travel times from Downstate Indiana to Chicago aren't time competitive with driving or taking the bus. Even closer to Chicago, there are still way too many speed restrictions and Amtrak has to play around with several different railroads north of Dyer.

People who live all the way in Downstate Indiana, after the Hoosier State discontinues, will drive or even take the bus. Some may take the Cardinal but the ones who aren't in a big rush. There might even be some people who live in and around Indianapolis who might head on over to an Amtrak station along the former Illinois Central route but even driving to a station there takes time. The closer people live to the last two stations along the Cardinal Route in Indiana, the more will probably use the South Shore or the Metra Electric District Line to University Park.

In a few years, NICTD West Lake will be serving Dyer and Munster connecting to the South Shore at Hammond. That is where Indiana's investment in rail is headed.
Perhaps a Lafayette to Illinois link would make more sense than the Monon north of Lafayette. Probably not.

Yes, that is very true about the West Lake SSL opening up. That will really help out people who live in and around Dyer and Munster. Is it known if that line will operate daily and provide roundtrips throughout the day.