F59PHIs

Is there any word as to what will become of the F59PHIs once the SC-44s are finish testing and deliveries are complete? Will they be relegated to protection power? Could they be reassigned to long distance trains? I'd love to see them here in Texas.

The engineers on the Cascades I have met all universally hate the F59 and their hope it gets sent to a museum...

From what I understand they are all in crummy shape needing full rebuild. Far as I'm aware, they are as old or older than anything else out there. Probably time to sell them to a lessor and let them take the cost to fix up and resell/lease out. Isn't Metra power-short? They could get a rebuild and go there to join three other F59's they bought.

Maybe NCRR would take them too, for the right price. They seem to love F59s down there.

WSDOT's getting rid of theirs because they're in lousy condition and have basically been in deferred maint mode for the last 2 years being abused until they fail one by one. Probably will see those reappear with some rent-a-wreck broker, since F59's are getting more plentiful on the rentals market. Sounder commuter rail is unlikely to take them since it just finished rebuilding its entire PHI fleet to Tier 3 emissions compliance, and the scope of rebuild the Cascades beaters would need to roll back the abuse and net another 20 years of reliable service is going to be a bit on the pricey side for all that hard living.


Caltrans still has to tap one more escalator option of Chargers to 100% displace its PHI's above-and-beyond the purely expansionary nature of their base order of Chargers, but they have already signaled that pickup is imminent. They have more repurposement options for their F59PHI's since they aren't quite as beat-to-snot as the Cascades engines and there are multiple commuter rail agencies in the state (Metrolink and Coaster) that use the same model. Metrolink's not exactly thrilled with its spanking-new F125's and has made no commitments to picking up any of the options for expanding their 20-unit base order out to 40. They have, however, been lathering on leased F59PH's recently while they rotate out some other power for PTC mods and light refreshes. An intra-state pickup + rebuild of Caltrans' PHI's could be a viable option for getting out from under the F125's lemony scent, since the number of available Caltrans PHI's slots close enough to the 20 F125 options they're loathe to pick up.

Unlikely they'd be kept in any sort of emergency standby duty on the corridor routes, because Caltrans also outright owns two P32-8WH units that'll also be displaced from regular revenue duty by the Charger options. The Dash 8's are much more appropriate for protect duty since they can also put in useful service hours as yard switchers and work train power and have same prime mover and traction motors as the Genesis. If anything legacy kicks around to haul passengers for another day on Amtrak California it's far more likely to be Caltrans Dash 8's 2051-2052 and not the PHI's...especially when the Chargers are also going to create a big glut of spare Gennies for AMTK to regionally reassign for anyone's gap-filler needs in another 18 months or so.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote: Metrolink's not exactly thrilled with its spanking-new F125's and has made no commitments to picking up any of the options for expanding their 20-unit base order out to 40. ...could be a viable option for getting out from under the F125's lemony scent, since the number of available Caltrans PHI's slots close enough to the 20 F125 options they're loathe to pick up.

Do we know this for a fact or is this just railfan or crew room chatter? I'm not questioning you, F-line, but I am questioning whatever background noise the general community is hearing about the F125. I've noticed quite a few new orders have this background chatter and it really echoes among certain crowds. People, whether railfans or crews, hate change. The ACS64 had this chatter for a while, as did the MP36. It has all but disappeared over time.

Not sure the future of the Cascades units is so certain as there are continued rumors posted online by Amtrak staff that they may be kept around to speed up schedules. Sure a heck of an expensive way to save a few minutes, particularly with them needing rebuilds, but we'll see. Still trying to figure out why 469 went to Chicago for a few weeks and came back with touched-up paint and new builders plates screwed over the old, illegible ones.

My best guess is that they'll end up at a commuter operation (most likely Metra) for a few years before they're truly done for good.

Regarding the F125s, my understanding of the issues is somewhat limited but the main problem with the FRA seems to be handrail and step placement as pictures of the units show several revisions. Not sure how that was overlooked by EMD/Vossloh, but it was...

Does anybody know how many P-42's are held "captive" to Amtrak- Ca services?
Might see the F-59's as LD service "boosters" after displacement by the SC-44's.
Just like the GP-40's that were used around the debut of the P-40's on the LD trains

Backshophoss wrote:Does anybody know how many P-42's are held "captive" to Amtrak- Ca services?

There, at any one time, six P42s on lease to Caltrans. These will be the first to go when the Chargers are accepted and running solo.

Backshophoss wrote:Does anybody know how many P-42's are held "captive" to Amtrak- Ca services?
Might see the F-59's as LD service "boosters" after displacement by the SC-44's.
Just like the GP-40's that were used around the debut of the P-40's on the LD trains

"Service boosters" for a short time, as the freed P42's are first getting reassigned to punt other Dash 8's from the national revenue pool to provide more work train bodies. But that won't last long because once the Midwest Chargers are fully in-service a whole new batch of P42's comes available to bump something else (ailing Gennie bodies, maybe the 13 active P40's...whatever's next highest-priority). There'll be enough GE's floating around on reserve between the Gennies and Dash 8's that it won't be worth the West Coast's while for very long to keep maintaining the EMD's for spot duty. You're talking like 18-24 months tops before there's enough fluidity with the GE makes to make maintaining crappy-condition, limited-numbers of F59's a poor use of time/money for the fringes of the active roster.

NorthWest wrote:
Regarding the F125s, my understanding of the issues is somewhat limited but the main problem with the FRA seems to be handrail and step placement as pictures of the units show several revisions. Not sure how that was overlooked by EMD/Vossloh, but it was...

Thanks for the input. This is a fairly easy fix. Silly to overlook, but a locomotive is VERY complex. I can only imagine how long it takes to put together a ground-up price on one. Also, these issues sure as heck aren't early career-enders. We're not talking about a repeat of the Hippos here or a dog like the DM30's. We're talking about some relatively minor rework.

I get suspicious when I hear background noise about problems but no real examples.

Speculation. Chargers will have to prove themselves for some period of time ( 6 months ? ). In the meantime the surplus P-42s can provide more backup for originating trains and extra winter weather power.. Then they can be transferred going back to CHI. Would suspect that the middle reliable Genies would rotate to Beech Grove for the major overhaul that Moorman has stated in some interviews.

Of course if Congress would designate funds for Chargers to Amtrak the overhauls probably would not happen, Yeah and LOTS OF LUCK>

Tadman wrote:
Thanks for the input. This is a fairly easy fix. Silly to overlook, but a locomotive is VERY complex. I can only imagine how long it takes to put together a ground-up price on one. Also, these issues sure as heck aren't early career-enders. We're not talking about a repeat of the Hippos here or a dog like the DM30's. We're talking about some relatively minor rework.

I get suspicious when I hear background noise about problems but no real examples.

It's really hard to know at this point because Metrolink has been pretty tight-lipped. There are rumors that the unit at Pueblo didn't do well but I can't find confirmation as it is all commented by anonymous people who either can't give their names out for fear of getting in trouble or actually don't know anything. As it stands, however, the units are more than a year late.

A lot of concern seems directed towards the C175 due to Cat's reputation for cheap use-once-and-replace engines and the problems with the PR43C demonstrators. As for the latter, I've been unable to determine whether those locomotives were shop queens due to the prime mover or other issues; the DM30s are prime examples of successful prime movers in disappointing locomotives and I haven't heard a about any major issues with the C175-powered Class 68s in the UK other than two fires that may or may not be C175 related.
I think we're about to learn a lot more about what the future looks like for these locomotives.

Cat prime movers have been a mixed bag in RR service,some good, some bad.
About the only real success may have been the MKC-5000's used by Utah RR on Solder Summit Coal trains headed to Provo and
Salt Lake based Steel Mills.

Backshophoss wrote:Cat prime movers have been a mixed bag in RR service,some good, some bad.
About the only real success may have been the MKC-5000's used by Utah RR on Solder Summit Coal trains headed to Provo and
Salt Lake based Steel Mills.

According to the Wiki article MK5000Cs only lasted from 2001 to 2002 in Utah Railway service with the 3612 and KATO alternator. Wabtec rebuilt them in 2002 into MK50-3s with 16-645s and AR11s. (Still running in that configuration on the Kyle Railroad, per 7/2017 Trains.)