Amtrak Florida Service

Any thoughts as to how the monorail, I mean HSR project is going to affect the bigger picture of Florida/SE service?

Has all the political capital for rail in Florida been spent on Sunrail?

FFolz wrote:Any thoughts as to how the monorail, I mean HSR project is going to affect the bigger picture of Florida/SE service?

Has all the political capital for rail in Florida been spent on Sunrail?

I haven't heard a word on resumption of service from NO to Florida. Having some stimulus money to rebuild/repair stations would be a good first step. Making some cars & locomotives to cover the time make sense.

We will see how long it takes to get Sunrail up & running.

Well, I talked to some FCRP folks and they said that they don't even recommend extending the Sunset Limited from NO to JAX any more. They are recommending the extension of a route from CHI to hit many of the same stations. *shrug*

FFolz wrote:Well, I talked to some FCRP folks and they said that they don't even recommend extending the Sunset Limited from NO to JAX any more. They are recommending the extension of a route from CHI to hit many of the same stations. *shrug*

thats seems smart since the cono could do that on a feasable schedule arriving into JAX in the morning after arriving into nol the day before.

I can't think of any single improvement Amtrak could make to their Florida trains that would make a bigger difference to their viability for in-state business and leisure travel than the addition of a 6:30pm departure in both directions between Miami and Orlando.

Why 6:30pm?

• It's late enough to travel after working a normal day at the office. In Dade County, it can EASILY take an hour to get from many parts of the metro area to the nearest Amtrak station. I'd grudgingly agree to 6:15pm, but would argue that any departure time before 6pm would be a grave mistake.
• With 5 to 5-1/2 hour travel times between Orlando and Miami, 6:30pm is still early enough to arrive by midnight.
• Those same 5 to 5-1/2 hour travel times make morning departures in time for noon events impossible. Morning travel between Miami and Orlando won't be viable unless/until travel time can be decreased to 4 hours or less. There's abundant evidence that intercity trains (and planes, for that matter) that run before 6:30am almost always have more crew members than actual, revenue-generating passengers.

Strategy: Amtrak allocates one new trainset, and wrings another 5 hours of revenue service from 91/92's train with a second Miami-based crew to produce the following new schedule (new trains in italics):

Miami-Orlando:

• 98, 8:40am-1:43pm (continues to Jacksonville & NYC)
• "94", 11:55am-5pm (the new trainset's first trip of the day)
• 92, 11:50am-7:08pm (via Tampa, continues to JAX & NYC)
• "96", 6:30pm-11:30pm (arrived in Miami as 91, deadheads back to Miami between midnight and 6am)

Orlando-Miami:

• 91, 10:31am-6:05pm (via Tampa, continues as 96 after this trip)
• 97, 1:10pm-6:55pm
• "95", 6:30pm-11:30pm (the new trainset's second trip of the day)

Since the total round trip for 91/92's "second job" would be less than 12 hours, a single crew boarding and based in Miami could handle the entire trip. If it left Orlando at midnight and took its time returning to Miami (say, 6 hours with delays from night CSX activity), it would still arrive by 6am, and have almost 6 hours for cleaning and maintenance before it was scheduled to depart for Tampa, Orlando, and New York at 11:50am as 92.

Another possibility: if Amtrak has at least one spare trainset in Hialeah that's equivalent to 91/92 and 97/98, they could just rotate all three trainsets each time they arrive:

• The trainset that arrived at 6:55pm the previous day as "97" would depart the following morning as "92".
• The spare would depart the next morning as "98".
• The trainset that arrived at 6:15pm the previous day as "91", and made a trip to Orlando and back as "96", would become the new spare for the next 24 hours until the next "91/92/96" trainset arrived the next day to take its place.

If Amtrak normally doesn't do maintenance work overnight, the added night trip wouldn't even have much effect on their workflow, because the extra trip would take place at a time when the trainset would have just been sitting idle on the siding overnight anyway.

The fuel for the return trip would be an added cost, of course, but I'm assuming that the fuel cost is nothing compared to the short-term capital cost of buying another trainset for several million dollars. Ditto for the rest of the crew's labor costs. Even if they're making $50/hour, it's pocket change compared to just the monthly interest that would accrue on a $5-20 million trainset. Also, I firmly believe that this 6:30pm train would be exceptionally popular with "locals" who live in Miami/Orlando and have normal jobs.

As much as I'd love to add a new pair of trains between Tampa and Miami making daily outbound trips at 10:30am and return trips at 6:30pm, it would require two more trainsets to cover the 6:30pm departure time, and I suspect CSX would balk at the prospect of adding four more trains between Tampa & Auburndale. CSX couldn't REFUSE to let Amtrak run the trains... but it could certainly "de-prioritize" the trains often enough to delay them into uselessness and make its displeasure known. By the same token, I wouldn't bother with additional non-HSR trains between Orlando and Tampa. IMHO, if Amtrak is going to risk the wrath of CSX by running more trains between Tampa & Auburndale, they should at least do it for something that's worth it.

Who knows... there might even be a market for midnight-6am trains between Orlando and Miami after all to reduce some of the deadhead costs. I'm sure there's not enough business to justify an intentional midnight train south, but if it's running back empty *anyway*, it might be worth experimenting with weekend "midnight madness" for a few months between March and July to see whether they ended up selling enough tickets to merit the added hassle of cleaning around the late-night passengers. Since the "Miami midnight train" would be mostly empty anyway, they could dispense with checked baggage (carry on your own luggage & just pile it up on the seat next to yours) and leave the stations along the way to Miami closed. If there are a few dozen people in the coach, it doesn't seem like it would be a huge imposition to have the attendant handle the snackbar food service on demand, too. As long as it's made clear that the service is purely secondary, I suspect that the few people who'd use it would mainly just be glad that it existed at all... if only because lots of them would probably be people who ended up missing the 6:30pm train, and really need to get home to go to work tomorrow

Alternatively, if the "96" train doesn't absolutely HAVE to be back in Miami in time to head north at 11:50am, instead of deadheading, it could just overnight in Orlando, and depart for Miami at some point between 9am and 10:30am (it wouldn't be duplicating the 91 train, because 91 takes a 3-hour detour to Tampa along the way to Miami. This train would go straight to Miami.)

As it stands, I'd personally use it to travel from Hollywood to Orlando *at least* 6-8 times per year. Right now, I usually break down and take a Friday off from work and endure having to rush lunch and leave early on Sunday for the sake of being able to take the train, but most of the time I just end up driving. Of those 6-8 trips I'd take if 6:30pm trains existed, at least 3 or 4 of them would be trips I don't take now, just because I passionately hate driving to Orlando.

Was checking status of 91/92 between Palatka and Tampa; saw big-time lateness this past week, especially westbound. Then read the alert on Amtrak's site about trackwork through March 29. Just curious if this is between Tampa and Palatka, as I will be riding on that segment on April 2nd. Anyone know the nature of the work, and/or the location? Silver Star northbound will resume its normal schedule on March 29.

Track work is being performed between Virginia and North Carolina. That is why 92 is moved up and 91 can really hit the skids.

thanks for the info. I'm lucky that the work should be done before I ride April 2nd!

Admin Note: because this is what I do. I'm going to fold in some threads on Amtrak regarding specifically Florida service (vs. overall Silver service). What prompts this? This article comparing a trip report on the Meteor to potential AAF service. I've already made a post in the AAF portion to discuss that portion; we can discuss the trip report here.

This is kind of a bipolar article, if you will. I don't mean that in a derogatory fashion. The article covers both the planned Brightline service, as well as serving as a trip report for the Meteor. I'll put this in a parallel topic to discuss AAF; this will be on the trip report.

One note: I believe the writer mistakes the cafe car for the diner.

FloridaPolitics.com
SNIPS:

AMTRAK IS NO ALL ABOARD FLORIDA, BUT IT’S ROLLING
...
The Amtrak Silver Meteor route travels down the center of the state then veers east toward the coast in Palm Beach County, all at speeds far less than 79 mph. We bought tickets starting from Winter Park, for a scheduled seven-hour trip to Miami.

Even at seven hours, the train was an easy choice for us, leaving us wondering whether All Aboard would be able to deliver better at a comparable price, as it proposes. Driving to Miami is draining. Flying to Miami strikes me as overkill, and airplanes are not comfortable enough nor airport experiences simple enough anymore to rate as worth the added cost of flying a short trip.

Trains, as All Aboard would want everyone to know, offer neither problem.

My wife and I arrived at the Winter Park Amtrak station at 11:35 a.m. and found a free Amtrak passenger parking space, 30 feet from the station door. By 11:42 we and our suitcase were checked in, so we had almost 45 minutes to kill. It was a gorgeous Florida day, so we wandered Winter Park’s Park Avenue shopping district.

Relatively few Orlandoans ever consider taking Amtrak to South Florida.

Amtrak reported that 377,550 riders got on or off its two trains on this route, the Silver Meteor or the Silver Star, in Orlando or South Florida last year. That included riders who got on the trains anywhere between Orlando and New York, where these trains originate.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I missed this completely.

https://www.facebook.com/10940536244964 ... 999900368/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Washington County News/Holmes County Advertiser
ALLLLLLLL ABOARD! We're taking the Gulf Coast Passenger Rail Train from Chipley to Tallahassee as part of our ongoing coverage of efforts to bring Amtrak passenger service back to the Gulf Coast. Here's hoping many more will see this view in years to come!

Gulf Coast Passenger Rail Train

http://www.fox10tv.com/story/31253084/a ... il-service" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BILOXI, Ms. (WALA) -
Amtrak and the Southern Rail Commission (SRC) rode along the Gulf Coast Thursday, February 18 on an Inspection Train.
The purpose of the trip was to examine the track and see what needs to be done to bring a passenger rail service back to the Gulf Coast.
“Amtrak and CSX are on board and they are literally inspecting the rail and infrastructure and then they will do an assessment and put a cost to the need, whatever the infrastructure needs are,” said Southern Rail Commission Chairman, Greg White.
This comes after the Southern Rail Commission released an Amtrak study looking into the feasibility of returning passenger rail service to Mobile December 2015.
The train departed from New Orleans and made stops in Bay St. Louis, Gulfport, Biloxi, Pascagoula and Mobile before arriving in Atmore. There, Amtrak officials, along with local and state leaders, discussed their insight into the economic and social benefits of bringing a rail passenger service back to the Gulf Coast.

Discussed in the Sunset Limited thread: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=75580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To stress what I have said many times previously on here and elsewhere, I believe the market potential for in state travel within Florida and especially Orlando and Miami/Fort Lauderdale is excellent. Why does it take Amtrak so long to go from these parts to Jacksonville to Miami or Fort Lauderdale? The answer is quite simple, it is a lot farther via Central Florida (Orlando) than it is via the Florida East Coast or I-95. Most of the present route via Orlando is 79 MPH territory and is pretty fast especially if the train involved is a bit behind schedule. The track is not in bad shape and is very straight for the most part. A point in favor of the in state passengers here in Florida is that the Florida service is basically daylight in nature and requires few early AM or evening arrivals or departures. I think All Aboard Florida/Brightline will do quite well once it gets going, I sure hope so.
Noel Weaver

Having had the opportunity as a kid to ride the East Coast Champion between DC and Miami. Left DC at dinner time and got to Jacksonville in the morning. As a kid, I thought we are almost there! Only to come to the realization that there is over 300 miles between Jax and Miami and the Champ served nearly every beach town along the route.

Jeff Smith wrote:This is kind of a bipolar article, if you will. I don't mean that in a derogatory fashion. The article covers both the planned Brightline service, as well as serving as a trip report for the Meteor.FloridaPolitics.com

From the article:

Our 12:26 p.m. train was late, a chronic problem with Amtrak. It arrived at 12:41, and rolled away at 12:51.

That's a 10-minute dwell time. Is that typical for Winter Park?

Looks like an opportunity to speed things up on the Star and Meteor. What would it take?

Simple answer: taking pride in the operation. Not so simple to achieve.