• Silver Star Downgrade and Diner Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by peconicstation
 
What month did this start? I would like to test the same technique as I have used for Month 1 on the Star to see how quickly a cost difference became discernible on the CONO.
There were a few "service adjustments" that started on July1, the dining downgrade for the CONO was one of them.

Here is the new menu, which also stipulates that lunch and full breakfast are southbound only.

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/148/959/Cit ... u-0715.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Ken
  by electricron
 
peconicstation wrote:There were a few "service adjustments" that started on July1, the dining downgrade for the CONO was one of them.

Here is the new menu, which also stipulates that lunch and full breakfast are southbound only.
Ken
Some of the menu changes can be explained by the train's schedule:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/380/658/Cit ... 1215,0.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Southbound
Depart Chicago 8:05 pm
Arrive New Orleans 3:32 pm
Northbound
Depart New Orleans 1:45 pm
Arrive Chicago 9:00 am

I'm surprised they didn't cut the southbound dinner service as well.
Note: This has been the CONO schedule since January.
  by west point
 
Arlington:
We can probably accept your lower loss figures but that is with the present configuration of the Star's consist. It may be entirely different with more sleepers, or a baggage dorm allowing more sleeper passengers per train set with same number of sleepers, more coach passengers, etc.

Someday Florida trains could have a consist of locos, 1 baggage or bag-dorm, 5 sleepers, lounge, full diner, 7 - 8 coaches. Mainly it require a different set up in diner calling for 45 minute max time at seats, more sittings, additional cooks and wait staff and probably restocking diners en route from new vendors. That might reduce line items food loses.

Could that ever happen ? Only if there were several trains a day on a route.
  by Arlington
 
west point wrote:Arlington:
It may be entirely different with more sleepers, or a baggage dorm allowing more sleeper passengers per train set with same number of sleepers, more coach passengers, etc.

Someday Florida trains could have a consist of locos, 1 baggage or bag-dorm, 5 sleepers, lounge, full diner, 7 - 8 coaches. Mainly it require a different set up in diner calling for 45 minute max time at seats, more sittings, additional cooks and wait staff and probably restocking diners en route from new vendors. That might reduce line items food loses,
I'm imagining a future with more sleepers per train too...it just often happens to have no diner at all and so you never have to worry about diner productivity or costs when thinking what the right number of sleepers is to add to a consist. If there's a big sleeper load day or month, run the sleepers on that train (and tweak the "cafe" catering at WAS southbound JAX northound or whatever) That's real operational flexibility.

It would be a very good thing if the Star experiment forced innovations elsewhere to ensure that the kitchens and cooks do a better job of paying for themselves on those trains that merit a diner, such as in-room touch-pad or toll-free ordering (so that tables are only used for eating, not for menu-reading, not for order-taking nor waiting to be served)--your meal itself can be relaxed, but floor plate and kitchen & staff are too expensive to have you sitting and killing time at a table or to have cooks ever idle due to how things are playing out at the tables. There's also delivering food to rooms (and maybe among the V-II tweaks should be touches that making dining in-room more attractive). I'd love to see the Meteor operate with 5 sleepers and one (busy) diner. I'd also like to seethe diner on the Crescent only operate ATL-NYP. IF the savings are $5m/year the yard upgrades in ATL or CLT or wherever would quickly pay for themselves.

You could also offer lower fares on diner trains to passengers willing to accept off-peak meals, or between city pairs that naturally eat at odd times (if you board at 10am, 2pm, or 7pm can I sit you right down to your cheap meal? Or assume you've eaten and offer you a meal at the next 2pm, 7pm, or 10am seating?) If you've been to Disney's EPCOT and not booked your table in advance, they're not shy about asking you to eat your dinner at 3pm. Best Japanese meal I ever had was at 3pm and I was grateful to get a seating then (and as a result of such capacity restraint, Disney's premium restaurants are packed ALL DAY LONG)

As these things get perfected, it will likely still make the most sense to have dining on some trains and not others. It'd be great to get 5 sleepers on the Meteor using 1 diner. It'd also be pretty sweet to have 1 or 8 sleepers on the Star and fill them all and not need to care about diners at all.
  by bostontrainguy
 
I still don't know the answer to this:

Do the new Viewliner diners have the ability to fully function on back up/emergency power? The Meteor loses one full diner sitting (both ways) due to the necessity to close down in Washington due to the engine change.

Five sittings instead of four would make a substantial difference in revenue. Maybe a 20% increase each way without any increase in fixed costs.
  by westernfalls
 
bostontrainguy wrote:The Meteor loses one full diner sitting (both ways) due to the necessity to close down in Washington due to the engine change.
Not that it would affect the Silver Star (if it had a diner) on its present schedule, but plugging trains in to house power for the duration would not only keep the diners and snack bars running, but also the lights, heat and air conditioning for entire trains. Platforms not equipped? Try a portable generator or two.
  by mmi16
 
bostontrainguy wrote:I still don't know the answer to this:

Do the new Viewliner diners have the ability to fully function on back up/emergency power? The Meteor loses one full diner sitting (both ways) due to the necessity to close down in Washington due to the engine change.

Five sittings instead of four would make a substantial difference in revenue. Maybe a 20% increase each way without any increase in fixed costs.
I am certain 'hotel power' is available in Union Station - just use it. Sounds like someone's calculated decision to screw the pooch.
  by Greg Moore
 
I believe we had this discussion once before. Adding hotel power during the engine change isn't nearly as simple as "plug in the plug and unplug when done."

I believe (off the top of my head) it was something like
Shut stuff off that can't handle abrupt power loss
Isolate car from rest of train ( which means folks of a particular craft)
Connect hotel power
Turn stuff on
wait for engine change
Turn stuff off
remove hotel power
Unisolate car from rest of train

That all said, I think the way to go is simply to make engine swaps occur faster, not to add additional steps.
Also, I suspect that having people moving about the train to/from the dining car while large numbers of people are boarding and disembarking is a recipe for disaster.

I just don't see the value here.
  by David Benton
 
I don't think it is that complicated, 2 or 3 of the steps have to be done to remove the engine anyway.
I would think 10 minutes max, probably 5 minutes to put the plugs in and turn the power on.
It is completley safe , if somebody pulls a plug out with the power on , the contactors open the circuit and there is no power at the plugs.
  by jp1822
 
electricron wrote:
peconicstation wrote:There were a few "service adjustments" that started on July1, the dining downgrade for the CONO was one of them.

Here is the new menu, which also stipulates that lunch and full breakfast are southbound only.
Ken
Some of the menu changes can be explained by the train's schedule:
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/380/658/Cit ... 1215,0.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Southbound
Depart Chicago 8:05 pm
Arrive New Orleans 3:32 pm
Northbound
Depart New Orleans 1:45 pm
Arrive Chicago 9:00 am

I'm surprised they didn't cut the southbound dinner service as well.
Note: This has been the CONO schedule since January.
Then why not just have the dining staff board to serve breakfast and lunch southbound and re-time to have CONO arrive Chicago at 7:30 am and just serve lunch and dinner northbound. Thus, no overnight dining crew to serve breakfast into Chicago - continental breakfast offered and put out by sleeping car attendant. And since only the cafe LSA would be overnight, open up Super Trans Dorm to revenue patrons, with additional sleeper car attendant.

Go for the gold and save money, or potentially a crew, by cutting meal service as per above. Makes no sense to carry dining car staff leaving Chicago if for a single night and not serving a meal first night out......I have similar issue with Lake Shore, but breakfast coming into Chicago westbound is very popular.....I'd do something different for this train eastbound, but different train and story.....
  by Arlington
 
^ This is good stuff. I'm going to ask the Mods to move it to the CoNO: All things City of New Orleans thread.
  by Jeff Smith
 
Difficult to separate out at the moment as the flow seems to me a bit intertwined or maybe posted for comparative purposes or one-off question and response. But let's keep discussion of CoNO to that thread.

Thanks.
  by Arlington
 
A quick look at Amsnag for WAS-ORL the next 30 days shows the Star's Roomettes sold out 5 times (versus none for the Meteor) and the Stars Bedrooms are sold out ~10 times versus Meteor sold out ~7, which to me suggests that things for September/October will be reasonably consistent with July and August--that the Star's lower price has done a better job of filling its sleepers than a diner did. (and August's financial numbers should be out in about a week)
  by electricron
 
Arlington wrote:A quick look at Amsnag for WAS-ORL the next 30 days shows the Star's Roomettes sold out 5 times (versus none for the Meteor) and the Stars Bedrooms are sold out ~10 times versus Meteor sold out ~7, which to me suggests that things for September/October will be reasonably consistent with July and August--that the Star's lower price has done a better job of filling its sleepers than a diner did. (and August's financial numbers should be out in about a week)
Comparing the two trains directly for being sold out isn't fair since the Meteor had 50% more sleeper cabins to sell than the Star., three cars vs two cars. What would be fair is to compare the Star's performance last year vs this year. :-D
Last edited by electricron on Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by F40CFan
 
Donated $75 to NARP and got a food tote bag that says "CONGRESS! This bag is NOT A Dining Car!" They send one to you for $50, or one to you and a member of congress for $75. NICE!
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