Private Rail Cars at Willets Point

would there be any chance (money no object) to move and park a PV to Willets Point for the duation of either a US Tennis Open or World Series?

In theory, yes. However the side tracks have the staircases removed from the platforms. Renovation is planned shortly. There would be special switching moves required (from Harold via Woodside) as well.

I have seen private cars in Amtrak's sunnyside yard which as the crow flies is not a big distance,liability issues real or imagined. mta will not allow it.If money is no issue you have a better chance of delivering the car by large helicopter to a panel of track in the parking lot.good luck

Metro North appears to allow PV's into GCT and on it's property so the question is LIRR policies.

Perhaps NYA could be contracted for the move?

NYA could not be contracted to do it. First, the Port Washington Branch is not part of LIRR/NYA joint use territory and crews are not qualified there. Secondly, if the car is occupied it is a passenger move and would violate their transfer agreement.

I believe the last PV to operate on Port Washington branch was the Cannon Ball, and was leased by MTA/LIRR for an anniversary run back in the 1990's.

Truthfully you could bring PV to Shea and lay it up on tracks 3 and 4 so the passengers could get off then shove the train just off the east end of the platform if it short enough or lay it on on tracks 5/6 though I'm not sure if they will accommodate cars due to the MofE dock build out on the old platform.

Now the real issue comes in with the car to be carried, If it's Amtrak certified or not and if it has its own power plant on board for use with Non HEP equipped engines. Shea does not have wayside power for the cars either.
As for the LIRR carrying the cars, the carrier does not to me knowledge have any ban or prohibition of PV cars, if you have the money and are willing to pay and carry your own insurance I don't see why one couldn't bring the cars to the event.

There was talk about NS bringing PV to Belmont but that got shot down.

Those are the odds your up against. LI is a special railroad and has their own special gameplan and rules they follow.
Unless your the circus or maybe Trump I doubt it.

Not going to happen.

There have been numerous requests for private car moves, all of which the carrier has refused, even for the benefit of the railroad and communities it serves. While Metro-North handles these moves on a regular basis, there is no one at the LIRR who will entertain this due to the learning curve with Legal and Risk Management on this matter being less than zero, and no initiative to learn. Engineering,Transportation, and Service Planning have no problem entertaining these moves. There are also issues with insurance as the standard AARPCO policies have been refused in several requests. And lets not forget the whole Socialism issue (as posted in the Cannonball thread).

The late Harry Shearer in Legal was an advocate for these moves, so much so that I believe AARPCO had one of their conventions in Montauk (Though I may be incorrect). In Arrts-Arrchives, there is a picture of Pennsylvania 120 at Patchouge when George Pins owned the car in the 1970's.

BTW: There was a special Amtrak baseball train from Boston to Shea Stadium in the early 1990's.

Cannon Ball did operate Jamaica to Greenport for the Anniversary, but that has been it.

So what does the LIRR consider the RBBB circus trains to be?
Anyway any PV nowadays that moves would have to be Amtrak certified, since it would be delivered to the LIRR via NYP
Many PV's have internal generators and push cones to shove a rental genny can be procured.


It comes down to the railroad wanting to entertain the issue

The circus train is considered a freight move. When LIRR still had the freight, it was handled through their freight department. NYA handled it for the first year with LIRR crews, as their own employees were not qualified to operate over joint use territory and had LIRR crews on board. After that, it has been handled by LIRR due to the fact that there are passengers on the train and NYA employees are not qualified for parts of the move.

As has been stated above, LIRR is not interested in entertaining such moves. Even when the Cannon Ball was brought on LIRR, they insisted modifications be made to the car, and most car owners would not wish to do that.

Private cars do not have to be Amtrak certified on LIRR. They could come via CSX and Fresh Pond.

A full diagram of any private car needs to be submitted to Engineering for clearance purposes. Cannon Ball may have needed to be retrofitted to meet LIRR clearances ( anybody remember the GP 38's with as built box filters and tore the canopy on Track 8 in Jamaica when delivered?)

Didn't CSX have some of their passenger cars on the CSX safety train at the team yard in Hicksville?

4behind2 and workextra are most accurate with their assessment.

The LIRR does not like these moves for all the reasons stated. They are not impossible, but would require heavy political lobbying and/or lots of money. Such a move would also need a qualified and intelligent individual to work out the technical details. All these virtues are in short supply in the private car business.

Yes, it can be done. But politically, it would be an uphill climb.

Ringling Brothers in an example of the clout that gets this job done. Political power, lots of money, a qualified intermediary, and a favotable public image.

In the past they used to pull private cars. There was a collector who used the LIRR now and then for his Pullman. Once the new equipment came, the locomotives were incompatible with standard equipment. It was easy years ago to simply attach a private car to the back of a scheduled diesel passenger train. Today, they would need to use a 1500 and Roustabout crew. It would have to run "extra", would be in the way and very costly. Or, they can attach the car to a scheduled passenger train, intact with a DE/DM and lead the train with a 1500 (doing the pulling). Why? The DE/DM would be the HEP for the C3's, the Pullman will probably have its own generator and the 1500 does not have a "hold" feature. Negating testing that handle position and allowing it to leave a terminal.

The Long Island could do it if they wanted to. They just don't want to. Besides, our past President, Mrs. Williams stated that 1500's could not be used on diesel passenger trains unless specifically permitted by the GST. I guess they were to "icky". The present GST is "old-school" but why would he bother? He would be up against new engineers and conductors who think that an M-7 and DE30 is railroading and the concept of a handsign is more complicated than the Apollo moon missions, an MofE Dept. who would be screaming about wheel wear and incompatible braking (they are wrong) and managers who would over manage the assignment.

Could it be done? Sure. With the right crew, they could back a Montauk train onto a freight train and run like it's an ordinary day. But who would bother? Do I sound cynical?

Publius, you sound like a seasoned employee of the Long Island Rail Road Company.

ajp,

You'd be lucky to find a handful of people left on the roster who know where the brake pipe is on your private car. Good luck with your endeavour.