AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

I think it's less about through Regionals than it is fewer Amtrak stops on the line itself. As asull85 has noted previously, stops in Windsor, Windsor Locks, Wallingford, and Meriden will be eliminated (Berlin is staying). So even shuttles will be faster.

Jeff Smith wrote:I think it's less about through Regionals than it is fewer Amtrak stops on the line itself. As asull85 has noted previously, stops in Windsor, Windsor Locks, Wallingford, and Meriden will be eliminated (Berlin is staying). So even shuttles will be faster.

Windsor Locks would be an unwise cut because the to-be-relocated station will have a much more robust Bradley Airport shuttle presence and sometimes Bradley's just flat-out cheaper and way less hassle to fly out of than anywhere else. Otherwise, yes...New Haven, Wallingford, Berlin, Hartford, BDL/Windsor Locks, and Springfield are all you really need for a nice taut, efficient trip pinging north-south. And would be the right-sized baseline if/when the Shuttles are extended east to Boston with stops at Palmer, Worcester, Framingham, and South Station rounding it up to an even 10 total.

CVRA7 wrote: I'm not going to hold my breath on through service as they would have to deal with Metro North to get extra slots through their territory.

Then Amtrak has a little chat with them about sending Metro North trains to Penn Station. Something would be worked out.

CDOT trains on springfield line are NOT amtrak trains even if Amtrak is going to operate them.
and therefore have no rights via Metro North unless operated by Metro North crews.
Amtrak is not going to hold knife to Metro North for several reasons, with biggest reason being MTA pays for a lot in tunnel and NYP maintenance.

DutchRailnut wrote:CDOT trains on springfield line are NOT amtrak trains even if Amtrak is going to operate them.
and therefore have no rights via Metro North unless operated by Metro North crews.
Amtrak is not going to hold knife to Metro North for several reasons, with biggest reason being MTA pays for a lot in tunnel and NYP maintenance.

I think he was referring to more WAS/NYP-SPG Regionals, not commuter trains. And more of those might not come into the picture until, as has been pointed out before, after the remaining drawbridges are replaced. Which yes may mean a number of years from now, but with Amtrak planning to add another 5 Acela RTs to/from Boston by 2030 that'll probably be all the slots they'll be able to get for the time being.

I've yet to see anything in writing about additional through service Regionals to/from SPG. If/when there are to be any additional frequencies north of SPG (either to VT, Montreal, etc.) those might end up being extensions of existing SPG trains. And those will have to wait until more single level equipment comes out east from CA and the Midwest once the new bilevels are delivered.

DutchRailnut wrote:CDOT trains on springfield line are NOT amtrak trains even if Amtrak is going to operate them.
and therefore have no rights via Metro North unless operated by Metro North crews.
Amtrak is not going to hold knife to Metro North for several reasons, with biggest reason being MTA pays for a lot in tunnel and NYP maintenance.

If Metro North wants to start using the Hell's Gate Bridge, the East River Tunnels and New York Penn because Park Avenue is at capacity they have to play nice with Amtrak.

They have a very poor case that the New Haven Line is low on slots because all of the New Haven Line trains share four tracks through the Bronx and Manhattan with all the trains along the Harlem and the Hudson Line. Especially if they are able to find slots for their trains to Penn Station.

Amtrak still owes lots off favours and since basically they do not pay trackage rights on NYS owned tracks they really can't make demands.

Adirondacker wrote:They have a very poor case that the New Haven Line is low on slots because all of the New Haven Line trains share four tracks through the Bronx and Manhattan with all the trains along the Harlem and the Hudson Line. Especially if they are able to find slots for their trains to Penn Station.

I think one big difference there is that most of the trains south of Woodlawn run express through the Bronx with the exception of the "upper Bronx" and limited "lower Bronx" Harlem Line locals and select New Haven Line trains and then south of Mott Haven almost every train stops @ 125th St. So there's a more organized way to funnel all 3 lines' worth of traffic -run by the same RR to boot- in an efficient manner by simply sending them down one by one at the same speed after making the same stop. Which is probably how MNR will figure out how to add more service on the NHL for Penn Station Access. It seems to me that what really chews up slots are switching moves and crossovers. This is what keeps Stamford-Waterbury through service from being a reality and is what limits Waterbury Branch service altogether.


And that brings me to this question: If Amtrak went to Metro-North and asked "Could we have some more slots if the trains we added made no station stops?" I wonder what the response would be THEN. Think about it if an Amtrak train enters the NHL @ SHELL and just goes straight to New Haven that keeps the train on the express tracks and out of the way of just about everything else unless there's a construction project being undertaken that requires closing off 1 or 2 tracks. If Amtrak were looking to add a mid-day RT through CT to SPG or VT I don't see how that couldn't be done with lighter levels of rail traffic in general during that time of the day.

NH2060 wrote:.. So there's a more organized way...

Ultimately CDOT decides how trains run on the New Haven line and if CDOT wants to run trains from the rest of the state, they'll run. They'll get reorganized.

Weekend impact, per Amtrak website:

QUOTE
Northeast Regional and Vermonter Services: Track Work Affects Service between New Haven and Springfield
Effective on Select Weekend Dates Starting August 28 through December 13, 2015

Track work being performed between New Haven and Springfield, will affect Northeast Regional and Vermonter service at the following stations: Wallingford, Meriden, Berlin, Hartford, Windsor, Windsor Locks and Springfield.


Friday Service Changes: August 28, September 11 and 25, October 02, 16, 23 and 30, November 06 and 13 and December 11
Northeast Regional Trains 136 and 148
Trains 136 and 148, which normally operate from Washington to Springfield, will terminate at New Haven, where bus service will be provided at all remaining stations on the route: Wallingford, Meriden, Berlin, Hartford, Windsor, Windsor Locks and Springfield.


Saturday Service Changes: August 29, September 12 and 26, October 03, 17, 24 and 31, November 07 and 14 and December 12
Northeast Regional Trains 140, 143, 146, & 147
Trains 140 and 146 will operate between Washington and New Haven. Passengers will be provided bus service at all stations from New Haven to Springfield.
Trains 143 and 147 will originate in New Haven. Passengers will be provided bus service at all stations from Springfield to New Haven.

Vermonter Trains 54 and 57
Train 54 will operate from Washington to New Haven, where all passengers will detrain and board a bus to Springfield and all intermediate stations. At Springfield, passengers will transfer to Train 54, serving all remaining stations on the route.
Train 57 will operate from St. Albans to Springfield, where passengers will detrain and board a bus to New Haven and all intermediate stations. At New Haven, passengers will transfer to Train 57 serving all remaining stations on the route.


Sunday Service Changes: August 30, September 13 and 27, October 04, 18, 25, November 01, 08 and 15 and December 13
Northeast Regional Trains 143 and 157
Trains 143 and 157 will operate between New Haven and Washington. Bus service will be provided at all stations from Springfield to New Haven.


We appreciate your patronage and apologize for any inconvenience. Reservation and train status information is available on Amtrak.com, our free mobile apps and at 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245).

Thank you for traveling with Amtrak.

PSN 0815-187
UNQUOTE

NH2060 wrote:Think about it if an Amtrak train enters the NHL @ SHELL and just goes straight to New Haven that keeps the train on the express tracks and out of the way of just about everything else unless there's a construction project being undertaken that requires closing off 1 or 2 tracks. If Amtrak were looking to add a mid-day RT through CT to SPG or VT I don't see how that couldn't be done with lighter levels of rail traffic in general during that time of the day.

They're never going to skip Stamford. That's the second-busiest station in Connecticut after New Haven, with 397k riders/year-- more than Hartford & Springfield combined.

Ridgefielder wrote: They're never going to skip Stamford. That's the second-busiest station in Connecticut after New Haven, with 397k riders/year-- more than Hartford & Springfield combined.

Probably not.

The reason Hartford has lousy ridership is that Hartford has lousy service. It won't be so lousy after they get done with the upgrades.
The trains will use the flyovers between New Rochelle and the Hell Gate Line to get to the new island platform(s) at New Rochelle along side the express tracks. Or people will sit in traffic on I95/Turnpike and RT15/Merritt and burn gas. Those are the two alternatives. Ferries are too slow, dirigibles don't have enough capacity, helicopters cost too much and make too much noise...

Adirondacker wrote:The reason Hartford has lousy ridership is that Hartford has lousy service.

Hartford doesn't have lousy ridership. I travelled from there for a year. Lousy service I'd agree with to an extent, particularly as it relates to commuter service (nothing northbound until after rush hour). The schedule definitely needs an upgrade, and Amtrak's ability to stop service at certain stations after Hartford Line starts will help with trip times.

The trains will use the flyovers between New Rochelle and the Hell Gate Line to get to the new island platform(s) at New Rochelle along side the express tracks.

There's no flyover at Shell/New Rochelle. At one point that was discussed, but they just simplified the interlocking for MNRR at Shell (eliminating the crossover/interlocking from tracks 3 and 1) and limited Amtrak to tracks 2 and 4 (formerly 4 and 6 within the station after the elimination of the center track, but 2 and 4 at the interlocking). So the crossover disruption onto the Hell Gate Line was reduced.

There are NO new island platforms; they're just making better use of the outside track east-bound, and not allowing Amtrak's generally longer dwell time to disrupt MNRR dispatching.

Jeff Smith wrote:

Adirondacker wrote:The reason Hartford has lousy ridership is that Hartford has lousy service.

Hartford doesn't have lousy ridership.

It has lousy ridership compared to Albany, a similarly sized metro area that is farther away from New York.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/CONNECTICUT14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hudson NY has more passengers.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/NEWYORK14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Itty bitty little Hudson.

Jeff Smith wrote:There's no flyover at Shell/New Rochelle.

No there isn't. Just because they did something a few years ago doesn't mean they will never ever do anything ever again. Just like they didn't leave it the way the New Haven left it when Penn Central got it. Or the way Conrail left it.
If they want to turn the two SLE trains that terminate in Stamford into two trains that go to Penn Station and two trains from Springfield that terminate in Stamford into two trains that go to Penn Station and have two originate in Stamford that go to Penn Station and four trains from Boston and still run as many trains to Grand Central that they run now they are going to have to do some thing with New Rochelle and access to the Hell Gate Line.

Adirondacker wrote:It has lousy ridership compared to Albany, a similarly sized metro area that is farther away from New York.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/CONNECTICUT14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hudson NY has more passengers.

http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/NEWYORK14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Itty bitty little Hudson.

You are not seriously trying to make a flat comparison between boardings/alightings at a station that gets 38 trains per day vs. one that gets 17, are you?

Gee...the Capital District has a cumulative population about 75% that of Greater Hartford. I wonder what would happen to that ridership if you gave them 40% the schedules they've got now. Or...better yet...give them 40% the schedules they've got now and make all but a handful of them change trains in Poughkeepsie to get to New York.

"Itty bitty little Hudson", indeed.


Please...if you're going to make this argument, do so without such bleeding obvious false equivalences.