• AMTRAK NEC: Springfield Shuttle/Regional/Valley Flyer/Inland Routing

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Jeff Smith
 
Outside of rehabbing some of these sets, including the Metroliner cab cars, I guess you could conceivably use the extra coaches on the NEC?
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
Arlington wrote:
west point wrote:Now if only Ma could find money to restore 2 main tracks from Springfield - Worchester then the inland route would become very important. Especially if the shore line is blocked for some reason.
MassDOT has the funding source (2013 gas tax hike was earmarked for Inland uogrades) F-line may correct me but my sense is that all the gas tax projects can't happen at once for cash-flow reasons and some planning on the double tracking (like what class of speed to build it to) is still being worked out.
The studies haven't even wrapped up for the B&A portion of the Inland Route so that's all very premature. The archaic infrastructure on the Worcester Line east of Framingham ends up being almost as big a to-do as the double-tracking out in CSX territory as far as implementing that schedule goes. So there's a lot to settle up on the MBTA as prerequisite.

Springfield Line's fully double-tracked in Massachusetts and there's no intermediate stations, so remaining Springfield Line work is not that pricey and the only limiter keeping CDOT starter schedules and Amtrak existing schedules from increasing too much towards full-blown is the unfunded layover yard at Armory Jct. All users--CDOT, Amtrak, and future-MassDOT--will be sharing that Armory facility, so in the interim space is limited to just the current cramped Springfield Union layup tracks and the bare parking spots in the small 3-track yard just before the junction. Layover is secondary priority to the remaining north-of-Hartford work still being shy one more delayed funding dump before the mainline infrastructure upgrades can be totally finished. Still have to do the remaining CT double-tracking Windsor-north that the ongoing work isn't funded for, and Windsor-Springfield resignaling the ongoing work isn't funded for.

So there's still a couple moving parts left to go on the Springfield Line itself and supporting the Springfield Line itself. Not ridiculously expensive, but they need the gridlocked Feds to release another money infusion because state's put forth so much money for the ongoing work that it can't do another release without time to recharge.


Should see some final recs for the B&A in about a year since the study is advancing along at a good pace. But as far as imminent service is concerned you're far more likely to see some Springfield Shuttles poke up the Conn River to turn at Greenfield than any Inland action to Boston. As mentioned, that T state-of-repair bill on the Worcester Line looms larger than the actual Springfield-Worcester work when it comes to getting a line that can perform well enough to take an intercity schedule delay-free. And that's going to put some of the financing on the backs of the dysfunctional T, so the bureaucratic hurdles the MassDOT mothership has to square need to plow west from Boston first. Just like the Springfield Line mopup has to plow north from Hartford to Armory layover before that's ready to robustly accept the traffic. The midsection is at least a straightforward job to settle once commuter rail land reaches ideal condition from the endpoints. And most optimistic schedule for commuter rail land at both endpoints takes all time pressure off of advancing design-build of the midsection before end of this decade.
  by BandA
 
[OT] If MA can get the feds to pay for remediation of Framingham-Boston deficiencies (what is needed Worcester-Framingham?), supposedly to benefit Amtrak Inland & Lake Shore Ltd. but mostly for commuter rail, that would be awesome win-win! This would include signal system, more crossovers, freight bypass around Framingham station, full highs in Framingham and Back Bay, completion of heat-destressing, and second track through Beacon Park. (Back Bay had cement full highs for about six months, but then they said they were "temporary platforms" and ripped them out. Thanks CSX)
  by amtrak-wnd
 
dowlingm wrote:
Jehochman wrote:Three trains per day each direction, plus buses for the cancelled shuttles. I wonder what Amtrak will do with the equipment that's freed up.
how many train sets does the shuttle need now, aside from the one for 494/495? Is a second train set going to have to stay anyway as to protect?
They use 3 sets normally. I think the other 2 will stick around because there aren't any changes to the weekend schedule (yet?).
  by F-line to Dudley via Park
 
BandA wrote:[OT] If MA can get the feds to pay for remediation of Framingham-Boston deficiencies (what is needed Worcester-Framingham?), supposedly to benefit Amtrak Inland & Lake Shore Ltd. but mostly for commuter rail, that would be awesome win-win! This would include signal system, more crossovers, freight bypass around Framingham station, full highs in Framingham and Back Bay, completion of heat-destressing, and second track through Beacon Park. (Back Bay had cement full highs for about six months, but then they said they were "temporary platforms" and ripped them out. Thanks CSX)
It's Boston-Framingham. That's still got the archaic ABS signal system with only 1 set of crossovers between the west end of Beacon Park and Framingham Jct. and a 59 MPH speed limit. Installed by Boston & Albany mid-60's when the Mass Pike Extension construction cleanroomed the ROW inside Route 128, and the absolute cheapest/most-limited/don't-give-a-crap installation they could get away with at the time. Despite several studies at improving, the T has found it too difficult to be able to install any new interlockings between Beacon Park and Framingham with how limited that 1960's setup is. And it's going to be a nightmare for the PTC mandate because it's non- cab signal and cabs can't be overlaid on it (other cabless southside lines like Franklin and Needham do at least have plausible mods for overlaying cabs + ACSES on the existing signals...not so on the inner Worcester Line). The whole works remains very brittle on OTP with any delayed train causing single-file backups, and a couple times a week an outright disaster commute when cascading delays take everything down. The Newton stretch definitely doesn't help when trains have to switch to opposite tracks to pass each other at those single-platform stations. Whiff on the timing and stuff starts backing up all around. Now that the Fitchburg Line has its brand new signal system and Class 4 speeds ending its bad old days of daily delay hell, Worcester takes the new crown as the OTP dregs of the whole system.

It's not a cheap fix to re-signal 21 miles, because it all has to be a total rip-out/rebuild with no in-place modifications possible or practical. And then 2, maybe 3 new sets of crossovers and relocations of the others. Probably on the order of $100M just for the signals, and a drawn-out construction schedule full of weekend outages. No funding allocated, no funding sources so much as whispered about so far. But it's necessary and mandatory if you want real passing opportunities and real 79 MPH MAS (certainly achievable on most of inside-Framingham). And ironclad for BOTH Inlands and dense Riverside-turning Indigo Line service (the latter needing multiple crossovers in Newton to mix/mingle with Worcester traffic, and to have any means of accessing Riverside Jct. from the outbound track). Either of those services are no-go if they don't do this, and regular old commuter rail has a finite cap on additional frequencies if they don't do this.

Outside of Framingham the signaling is fine. It's all mid-80's Conrail installation cab signals all the way out to Albany, and was easily modified at reasonable cost when the second track went back in Framingham-Worcester in the mid-90's for return of commuter rail...complete with fairly generous # of crossovers. Completion of the destressing project is the only requirement to bump the track west of Framingham Jct. to Class 4/79 MPH, so that's coming very soon. Capability's already baked into the signal layout, so Class 4 Springfield-Worcester only requires a similar rail destressing and tidy-up job. Class 5/90 MPH might be a reach for the price tag, but the Inlands will easily be doing 79 on the very straight Springfield-Palmer stretch and on most of the Worcester-Framingham stretch. Palmer-Worcester then being a grin-and-bear-it with the max the hills and curves will bear.

That's probably good enough for bona fide high-demand Inland service when you consider that the Springfield Line will be hugely faster on those 90-110 MPH stretches, and MBTA territory much better. The current LSL and pre-2004 Inland schedules aren't indicative at all of how reasonable a trip it would be Springfield-Boston at vanilla Class 4. You're still talking a stratospheric improvement over MBTA territory and CSX freight priority on the single-track stretches, with massive savings already banked before the trains even hit Springfield. I doubt they even worry much about shooting for Class 5 if that's going to increase the cost much. Bread-and-butter schedule works and generates the demand just fine without stretching their funding thin beyond Class 4, and that's always an upgrade you can easily revisit later. They aren't technologically pinned in to only one shot at doing a track class uprate within cost. If the signaling infrastructure is up-to-snuff (and it largely is west of Framingham) that's something they can easily go back and do when demand crests enough to merit it.

Other stuff like the stations, while important (esp. getting the Newton trio accessible to both tracks), isn't necessarily going to hold up debut of the Inlands. Framingham is fully ADA-accessible, so while desirable to make it a full-high with freight passer behind the station that's not the first place the state would choose to ration its money unless Amtrak wanted to float that cost. The other non-ADA stops are all strictly commuter rail's concern and wouldn't hold up any Inlands. The only required station build for the Inlands, per the early-preview study recs, is a second platform at Worcester Union Station. Which would replicate the old-time layout by sticking an island platform with stairs/elevator next to the current platform track. You can easily see where that used to be on Google the way the next track over is conspicuously overspaced from the platform track and some random chunks of old pavement on that gap just east of the I-290 overpass give a clue that something used to be there. Just need to drop in a simple 800' x 12' full-high and a down-and-under egress into the station building. Not a huge deal.
  by asull85
 
amtrak-wnd wrote:
dowlingm wrote:
Jehochman wrote:Three trains per day each direction, plus buses for the cancelled shuttles. I wonder what Amtrak will do with the equipment that's freed up.
how many train sets does the shuttle need now, aside from the one for 494/495? Is a second train set going to have to stay anyway as to protect?
They use 3 sets normally. I think the other 2 will stick around because there aren't any changes to the weekend schedule (yet?).
All 3 sets are staying for now. One set will stay in Springfield all day. 475 will use the other and 494 will use the New Haven set. The following day the "protect set" from the previous day will be used as 475 and the previous days 475 will be 494. Today they were taking measurements in Parcel G in NHV trying to determine if they can fit a pair 8-9 car trains in the yard along with two shuttle sets, the protect diesels, work engines and whatever electrics are hanging around.
  by Jehochman
 
Why would two 8-9 car trains want to hang around in New Haven? Is this planning for the second Vermonter/Montrealer or the inland route, or a new NEC pattern?
  by asull85
 
Jehochman wrote:Why would two 8-9 car trains want to hang around in New Haven? Is this planning for the second Vermonter/Montrealer or the inland route, or a new NEC pattern?
Extended outages on the Springfield Line. They are measuring for 136, 140, 146 and 148.
  by Larry
 
I visited AMTRAK / CSO Hartford CT rail yard yesterday and today. Much work progressing as I see switch panels laid out on North end of yard toward old Fish Fry street. In middle of yard between AMTRAK main line and CSO's first track (track lead towards AMTRAKS main line) is being carved out of old ballast and debris and trucked away. Work also progressing on South end of yard just before tunnels. Before I went on vaca last week there was one track laid out next to CSO's yard that was being made up of new track and cement ties. This track is now extended to about a third to half the yard at this point. I spoke to some AMTRAK employees yesterday but they are not saying to much about what is taken place and how it will progress going forward. CSO was working the yard yesterday as well as today and CSO from Springfield was laid up waiting track assignment it looked like. Things are getting very crowded in this area. I also watched Vermonter go North yesterday. I will be checking the progress as they go forward.
  by jt42cwr
 
Can anyone confirm how the sets rotate through the cycles on (Saturdays &) Sundays?
  by CVRA7
 
Just announced today:
The New Haven-Springfield Line will be shut down on the following weekends:
28-30 August
11-13 September
25-27 September
2-4 October
16-18 October
23-25 October
30 October - 1 November
6-8 November
13-15 November
11-13 December
During those Fridays, trains 148 and 136 will be Bustituted from New Haven - Springfield
joining the existing weekday bustitution runs.
Saturdays - NOTHING runs, all scheduled trains are bustituted northbound and southbound.
Sundays - All northbound trains are planned to be operating
Trains 143 and 157 will be bustituted between Springfield and New Haven, train beyond; all other trains should operate.
The "Vermonter" services will operate north of Springfield - cafe food and beverage availability may be limited as the weekend wears on and supplies dwindle.
I sure hope the construction gangs use these shut downs productively! So far I have seen little track material stockpiled for this work so I am concerned that they won't be ready.
And I sure hope that Amtrak is already planning how they will recapture business lost to Peter Pan and Greyhound bus lines during this period.
  by Adirondacker
 
CVRA7 wrote: ..And I sure hope that Amtrak is already planning how they will recapture business lost to Peter Pan and Greyhound bus lines during this period.
By offering faster service than the bus after the work is done. Maybe even more through service.
  by asull85
 
The first complete shutdown of the Springfield Line is scheduled from evening of August 28th to the morning of August 30th. Right now the plan is to run 494 north on the 28th and then nothing else will run until train 405 on the 30th. There is a slight chance that 475 could be the last train on the 28th. Trains 148 and 136 will layover in New Haven Motor Storage or Cedar Hill on Friday. The same goes for 140 and 146 on Saturday.
  by CVRA7
 
[quote="Adirondacker"][quote="CVRA7"]
..And I sure hope that Amtrak is already planning how they will recapture business lost to Peter Pan and Greyhound bus lines during this period.[/quote]

By offering faster service than the bus after the work is done. Maybe even more through service.[/quote]

I'm not going to hold my breath on through service as they would have to deal with Metro North to get extra slots through their territory.
  • 1
  • 34
  • 35
  • 36
  • 37
  • 38
  • 155