Retirements and Disposition of CR Equipment

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Metra's actively rebuilding their massive fleet to the latest "3C" designation, which is the spec for the last all-new units that were produced on the mid-2000's.

None of Metra's power has standalone HEP. The MPI units are being converted but if the F40s are getting standalone HEP conversions, they'll be getting the same sort of tacked on system the NJ Transit F40PH-2CATs did. If it works for Metra and NJT why wouldn't it work for MassDOT?

All this talk of HEP aside, the T should donate a screamer (dead or not) to a railroad museum. The museum could fix it up as a project and get all kinds of rail fans involved. Or keep one or two of the best for emergency power. Just a thought...

And that is exactly what this group here is all about: http://www.f40ph.org/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you really want pickings from NJT.. Find the F40s. The reason the P40s dont see any use down here is because theyre junk. Only the #4801 behaves.

chrisf wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:Metra's actively rebuilding their massive fleet to the latest "3C" designation, which is the spec for the last all-new units that were produced on the mid-2000's.

None of Metra's power has standalone HEP. The MPI units are being converted but if the F40s are getting standalone HEP conversions, they'll be getting the same sort of tacked on system the NJ Transit F40PH-2CATs did. If it works for Metra and NJT why wouldn't it work for MassDOT?

It wouldn't work for MassDOT because no one has done a 'tack-on' conversion of an F40PH to retrofit with a HEP engine in over a dozen years. There are lots and lots of ex-AMTK Screamers just sitting around in yards collecting rust, and no one in more than a decade has sized them up for it. Just like no one has sized up any additional freight Geeps for conversions in that span despite their ready availability. They have not done so because for 10 years there have been less expensive used options to choose from. Those 1990's and early-00's conversions were brought on by scarcity of anything halfway-modern in the passenger loco aftermarket at that time, so it was worth the extra cost to structurally modify an F40's body for the extra room to hold a HEP generator. It's no longer worth that extra cost with the increased supply of used passenger locos available that require no structural modifications for HEP. There are too many available F40's with the factory-built HEP compartment inside; there is no need to weld a new compartment onto the back and rearrange other mounts and components like those old 2CAT conversions.

Simple supply and demand economics. That's what's changed. Why is MassDOT intentionally choosing to do more expensive modifications that the entire domestic passenger rail industry has deemed uneconomical? Uneconomical, not infeasible. They can't cite conversions done 12-20 years ago as justification for doing it, because the cost-benefit ratio was in a completely different place back then prior to this current wave of secondhand HEP units.


Yes, I was mistaken...Metra's rebuilds go off the inverter and do not have a separate HEP generator. Whereas Metro North's and others were upgrades of pre-existing HEP (or re- rebuilds that were got prior structural mods 15 years ago when that was still the thing to do). Metra's inverter rebuilds ones are Tier 0 emissions compliant, so also no longer "Screamers" in the sense that the main engine has to run at notch 8 to provide power to the consist. OK...there's the one place on earth that can make an economic case for rebuilding a Screamer because it doesn't need to do carbody mods to fit its new components. Metra's fleet scale trumps--in their minds--the fact that inverters on a DC loco are fuel pigs compared to an equivalent HEP generator configuration (whereas inverter-only does save fuel on all-AC makes). Metra may be very strange about its technical preferences, but they still have an economic case for what they're doing.

MassDOT doesn't have an economic case. Nor does every other commuter railroad not named Metra that has HEP generators on 100% of its fleets have an economic case for looking at more non-HEP conversions. That era ended 10 years ago. "They're ours and because reasons..." isn't an economic case. Lease-back isn't going to pay off the cost premium for turning any of units 1000-1017 into something with a future and turn that into a better bargain. If it could, somebody else in the last 10 years would've done it with their surplus Screamers or Geeps for more 1990's-style conversions. MassDOT's not being thrifty or inventive here. It stopped being done by everyone else because it stopped paying off.


That's it. If we want the state to be smarter about how it spends its transportation money you've got to look at all the collective head-scratchers like this as waste without justification. If nobody does this anymore because the cost-benefit is too wretched, what is their justification for doing it? There isn't one.

ACeInTheHole wrote:If you really want pickings from NJT.. Find the F40s. The reason the P40s dont see any use down here is because theyre junk. Only the #4801 behaves.

Are the NJT-ownership ones still even on the property? I thought they got picked over by the resalers already like all the GP40FH-2's that finally got hauled away last year.

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

ACeInTheHole wrote:If you really want pickings from NJT.. Find the F40s. The reason the P40s dont see any use down here is because theyre junk. Only the #4801 behaves.

Are the NJT-ownership ones still even on the property? I thought they got picked over by the resalers already like all the GP40FH-2's that finally got hauled away last year.

I didnt hear that they were moved.. Hmm, I know where to chrck for them, maybe if Im feeling bored tomorrow ill go look.

ACeInTheHole wrote:

F-line to Dudley via Park wrote:

ACeInTheHole wrote:If you really want pickings from NJT.. Find the F40s. The reason the P40s dont see any use down here is because theyre junk. Only the #4801 behaves.

Are the NJT-ownership ones still even on the property? I thought they got picked over by the resalers already like all the GP40FH-2's that finally got hauled away last year.

I didnt hear that they were moved.. Hmm, I know where to chrck for them, maybe if Im feeling bored tomorrow ill go look.

They were stuffed on the Garwood spur with a bunch of the FH-2 Geep retirees, but the last "Where are they now?" thread on the NJT forum about stored equipment still in their possession hasn't been updated in a year. And that was before NS carted the Geep corpses off en masse to meet their maker, so no idea if the rest of the dead line on that spur has been cleaned out or dispersed to more secure storage locations on the system (IIRC, Garwood was used despite being a tagger's paradise out in the open because space at the time was so limited in the yards due to ongoing Sandy-related equipment repairs).

Given that they were 2CAT's from the same pool that Metro North rebuilt into 3C's, they'd be highly sought-after by the resellers. The only justification for NJT holding onto them any longer would be if they were waiting out the surge of ex-AMT lease units to dwindle to fetch a better price before re-pumping the used market. But even then they'd be about due to go out to third-party bid before depreciation from sitting around OOS for so long started to erode the resale value.

NJT F40's 4114, 4118, 4127 and 4129 are still sitting in Garwood by PathMark along with GP40ph-2's 4107 and I believe 4101.

genesis11980 wrote:NJT F40's 4114, 4118, 4127 and 4129 are still sitting in Garwood by PathMark along with GP40ph-2's 4107 and I believe 4101.

4111. And thanks.

Now back to MBTA F40's, the 1006 & 1017 have arrived in Waterville.

NJT 4115 4116 4123 4125 were rebuilt for Metronorth as 4911 to 4914 and are still running.

Martin Baumann wrote:NJT 4115 4116 4123 4125 were rebuilt for Metronorth as 4911 to 4914 and are still running.

Yes. Ive seen those. Wasnt trying to drag this off topic, just present some counters. Now please, back to the MBTA.

genesis11980 wrote:NJT F40's 4114, 4118, 4127 and 4129 are still sitting in Garwood by PathMark along with GP40ph-2's 4107 and I believe 4101.

Gonna need some new number boards, amongst other things, before they're in ready-to-run condition: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 694&nseq=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

The vandals has been helping themselves to souvenirs and gradually giving them new paint jobs the longer they sit out there.

ck4049 wrote:Now back to MBTA F40's, the 1006 & 1017 have arrived in Waterville.

Any idea on ultimate destination? They showed up on the interchange tracks at Northern Maine Jct. today.