Adirondack Scenic Railroad (ADIX) Discussion - 2013

Hahahahahha!!!! Jim McCully and Scott Thompson and no hidden agendas?????!!!!! Tony you just sank your own ship. One wants a snomobile superhighway and the other wants a road going to his business. And they are two of the most level headed people you could possibly find (more laughs). With a a team like that ARTA can't fail. Thanks for the laugh though. You made my day.

Tony Goodwin wrote:Do yourself and the ASR

I don't speak for the ASR

I actually am a rail fan - just not a fan of this railroad.

Riiiiiiiight.

Members of the ARTA board include Jim McCulley, and Scott Thompson

Yes, those are exactly the people we are suggesting you will throw under the bus.

the ATV threat, we are well aware that it will be an issue - especially at first before the non-motorized use is established. Remember that there are many places where there absolutely cannot be a parallel trail in the Corridor. Here a simple gate will easily stop ATVs with no possible alternate route.

Tony Goodwin wrote:the ATV threat, we are well aware that it will be an issue - especially at first before the non-motorized use is established. Remember that there are many places where there absolutely cannot be a parallel trail in the Corridor. Here a simple gate will easily stop ATVs with no possible alternate route.

Your mind seems made up, but we'll try presenting you with a little more contrary evidence to your fantasy.

Tony Goodwin wrote:the ATV threat, we are well aware that it will be an issue - especially at first before the non-motorized use is established. Remember that there are many places where there absolutely cannot be a parallel trail in the Corridor. Here a simple gate will easily stop ATVs with no possible alternate route.

One more photo. See the lengths that property owners (which will be you, oops, I mean the state, oops, I mean taxpayers) will have to go to keep ATVers off the rail-trail? Notice that I haven't shown you *any* of my Rutland "OMG, that puddle has no bottom" photos. If you continue to blather on with your maundering farrago of nonsense, I'll whip out the big guns. Oops, I mean the big puddles.

Oh, and as for your snowmobile buddies, did I mention the snowmobiler who died on the Rutland Trail when his ski tip caught a root exposed by ATVers?

If you ask me, it's worth having the rails in place JUST to discourage the ATVers.

Cactus Jack wrote:Just where is the Rutland trail in Vermont you refer to? (yeah, I know ex-Rutland RR, but where specifically?)

I didn't say Vermont. This discussion isn't about the behavior of Vermonters or Virginians. It's about how people in rural New York abuse abandoned railbeds against the express desires of the property owners; specifically the Adirondacks, Catskills, Saint Lawrence Valley, and Leatherstocking regions. Not many people, fewer police, and a healthy disrespect for Tony's little signs and wooden gates.

Presumably this Rutland trail is a part of the former Rutland line across nothern New York to Ogdensburg, which the majority of was abandoned when the Rutland ceased to be in 1961.

Which means these are the same crowd that would disrespect an Adirondack trail.

Let's not forget the print ad that appeared this winter starring several Olympic athletes, talking about what a great asset the trail would be. Their Olympic sport? Biathlon. That's shooting and cross country skiing. I wonder how well the snowmobilers and cross country skiers are going to co-exist on this trail... Wait - maybe there won't be any snowmobilers on the trail, so the skiers won't have to deal with them...

Oh, yeah - can't forget the rumor going around that Scott wants to sell Norridgewock - reinforced by a letter he wrote to one of the papers this winter which pointed out that if there was a road to Beaver River property values there would increase. What property owner in his right mind wants his property value (and therefore taxes) to increase? Oh, yeah - someone who's trying to sell.

Ya think Scott's going to give a whit about this trail once he sells?

With regard to state funding, the IRS Form 990 filed by ARPS for 2011 shows a grant from DOT for $299,421, or about 20% of total operating income. Earlier returns show similar amounts. http://www.charitiesnys.com/RegistrySea ... DF29A00007}.

The ATV gates shown are all on flat, open land. The Corridor has better places for gates, and I don't know how you think NY ATVers are some sort of super human species not found in other states. The photos of the mud wallows are not taken on developed rail trails.

Finally, just leaving the rails in place likely won't work as the ties will eventually sink far enough into the mud that you can ride between the rails. This has happened on the Tahawus line.

Just so everyone reading this has the facts straight, the point Tony is trying to make is:

Spending taxpayer money on fixing the tracks to improve rail service is bad, evil, and cannot be tolerated. People involved with the Adirondack Scenic are only "playing with trains" and a burden on New York State.

Spending taxpayer money on ripping out the tracks (won't be free), disposing the ties (also not free), re-grading the roadbed, doing selective paving, installing gates to keep out ATVs, building parking areas, and installing all the proper signage for the trail is fine (because is helps HIS ultimate goal). Also working with less then reputable people is also OK because it also helps said goal.

I think we can all agree that either project once completed will be a draw for the area. ARTA's view is that the trail is better because it will be inundated with hundreds of thousands of able-bodied adults that will magically come out of the woodwork to use it (oh, and empty their wallets while they are here).

Meanwhile the railroad has a proven operation that is used by tens of thousands of people (approximately 70,000 able-bodied, elderly, children and handicapped alike) every year that will only improve as more of the region is connected with expanded restored track. It can also be used as a tool to bring in people from outside the area to use already existing trails (and business like the Norridgewock) located along the line (I for one can't wait until the train can drop me off at Lake Lila or Floodwood with my kayak, tent and supplies and save me the hassle and time of driving up congested Rt 30 then hiking in to my ultimate destination). Not to mention that people will often take a train ride on days of inclement weather (ever ride your bike in the rain?). The window of a passenger train is also a good Black-Fly repellant.

Nope. Even when you break it down to basics ARTA's plans and claims don't hold water.

Just ask the business owners in Old Forge or Saranac Lake how much effect the railroad has had. Better yet, ask the business owners of North Creek what it's like to have a rail service connection to a large city. It wasn't that long ago (1992) that business of Old Forge were basically saved by the tourism draw the railroad provided in what turned out to be a very wet and rainy summer season.

You just keep trying to change our minds though Tony.

Theres spots here where the ATVs have no room alongside the tracks so instead of finding another way, they just ride down the tracks. One of these days were gonna come around a corner and nail one of them. Atvs WILL find a way around gates no matter what. Dont believe me? Come down here for a day and ill show you.

Oh and Charlie, Ive been laughing for the last 10 minutes straight. That was great

Gunsnclapton wrote:Oh and Charlie, Ive been laughing for the last 10 minutes straight. That was great

Glad you enjoyed.

Once Thompson's and McCulley's names came into it, that was all I thought of........3 clueless knuckleheads.

Charlie

$299,421, or about 20% of total operating income? I'm sure the state wastes far more than that, on a daily basis, on many other things that need ending more than the ADIX would. How does that amount compare to what it would truly take to properly maintain a trail that long, never mind the start-up cost?

Scott K.

That $300k was also a GRANT and not a subsidy. If the railroad didn't get it someone else would (and I don't actually know anything about the situation, just going off what was said here).

Thank you for letting post my opinion on what I think of this tremendous asset that I believe the adir. really is and find it absolutely hard to believe that the asr and their people don't appear to be interested in finding ways to capitalize on how to best utilize this asset to be the resource in the success of their endeavors. Unfortunately, simple ideas and solutions, where both can co exist and complement each other currently and in the future are over shadowed by people's lack of open mindedness and personal agendas for what is best for their small minority interest in the region where they reside. It would a pleasure to read on this posting constructive dialogue on how to make everything work for everyone. It would awesome if someone like Russ and someone like Tony came together in a more proactive,civilized and non personal agenda satisfying sense and created a group or organization that would bring both interest together rather than wasting their energy and opposing each other. For example, Tony, find a way to provide a bus service with the capability of handling camping equipment, kayaks, bikes ect. from the rail stations to the trails and state parks. Possibly the adir. could formulate a train schedule that would be more supportive to that sort of agenda. Possibly there may be opportunities to operate year round.

Tony Goodwin wrote:The ATV gates shown are all on flat, open land. The Corridor has better places for gates, and I don't know how you think NY ATVers are some sort of super human species not found in other states. The photos of the mud wallows are not taken on developed rail trails.

Right! I give up trying to convince you. Contrary facts just go flying over your head. Hopefully there are other people who are involved who will take pause at your papering-over of facts, and ask themselves "Why can't Tony acknowledge that it's impossible to keep ATVs off the trail? Maybe it's because the trail is not viable UNLESS he ignores these facts?"