No Hope for Newtown

Hmmm I thought they all closed in 1985 damn Wikipedia. Oh and I know they are not abandoned they are "Temporally Suspended lines" still owned by septa, Bethlehem conrail?

Matthew Mitchell wrote: Newtown service was suspended in 1984 (right?) for reasons explained elsewhere in the thread.

January-February 1983.

rbreslow wrote:Hmmm I thought they all closed in 1985 damn Wikipedia. Oh and I know they are not abandoned they are "Temporally Suspended lines" still owned by septa, Bethlehem conrail?

Wikipedia is useful as a starting-point for doing your own additional research; don't take it as gospel.

Franklin Gowen wrote:

Matthew Mitchell wrote: Newtown service was suspended in 1984 (right?) for reasons explained elsewhere in the thread.

January-February 1983.

Thanks, Frank. I usually pull this info from my ridership history database, which has a gap in 1983. Of course you're right, since January 1983 was the beginning of SEPTA's direct operation of the RRD.

Service officially ended on January 14, 1983 when it was discovered that a major component of the braking system on the one remaining RDC fell off the train at AYRES interlocking. The two articles on wikipedia are actually pretty accurate and are heavily sourced from reliable documents. Not sure where the 1984 and 1985 dates are coming from. The trial run of the British diesel was in September 1985, but regular service ended in Jan 1983.

"Only one round trip between Newtown and Fox Chase was made on January 14, 1983, the final day of service. As the train approached Newtown Station, it was discovered that a major component of the braking system fell off at Bethayres. The maintenance crew took the last working train out of service and busses were called in to protect the schedule. Without operable RDC trains, all service was suspended on temporary basis."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Chase_Line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Chase_ ... ansit_Line

July 7, 1978 before the mutulation began and the electric-only mentality shrunk the system to bare bones.

ChrisinAbington wrote:

swedishmeatball83 wrote:

ChrisinAbington wrote:A great many assumptions were made on your part that have little fact behind them. I simply asked have any companies along the line have taken notice of the railway and...if considering rail frieght as an option...inquired about having shipments delivered by rail. That is all.

Yeah, right. Assumptions... I'm pretty sure your previous posts from this and related threads can be a pretty good indicator of your general thoughtset.
You haven't done a very good job of explaining out your basis for this current tact of reopening Newtown.
Again, where is the money going to come from?
I understand your eagerness to grasp onto any possibility that the line could be more attractive with freight potential, but you have to answer the simple question of "why would it be more attractive than what is currently out there"
That's not a manufacturing corridor, and likely never will be. It will take tons of money to restore where current underused lines would not.
As an accountant, I see no logical answer to this quandry, and would invite you to help me understand.

I think I see what the Swedish Chef is asking. He is not looking at the source of money (though the interested freight company would foot the bill) Actually, the tracks were regularly upgraded by SEPTA throughout the 1980s after service ended, so they are not a complete disaster. Train speed would certainly be restricted, but if it is light freight load, more ties than track would need to be replaced.

The basis is simply (1) is there a market? If so, has any company along the line spoken up? I am thinking one prospect that makes it more attractive is that there would be no intereference from passenger trains. Also, if business from one company picks up, then nearby companies in Southampton may join. This happens very frequently. Unfortunately, the reality is that the Newtown line is not a manufacturing corridor but that does not mean there are no businesses along the line that could not use the service if trains were running...or they knew there was a possibility of trains running.

There is no reason to be accusatory, Chris. Swedish Chef just asked a question. Please do not get this thread locked again.

I'm not accusing him of anything, other than shortchanging the realities of the present line. It IS a disaster in the current state. I have walked the line in the past two years from Fox Chase to Bristol Road. The bridge across the Neshaminy looks like it needs a total rebuild, and that's besides the obvious needs of the missing Shady Lane viaduct, the multiple bridges over the Pennypack Creek, and the unresolved crossing of the West Trenton line. North of the West Trenton line, the ROW is well intact, but the rails are either under a few feet of dirt, missing, or disjointed. It's not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination. In that area, I can recall a whopping total of two buildings that looked like it could have had freight rail service in the past.
I, just like 99% of the people reading this, would love to see the Newtown corridor back in business again but it's not going to happen without a heck of a lot of new funding in place (from Harrisburg) first. No freight hauler is going to restore those tracks for minimal business. I don't want anyone to be fooled into thinking otherwise.

How about having S.E.P.T.A. offering the township the chance to pay for electrification and new track age and if they decline. Then say there is no hope. Someone should see if Septa already has. I know the township of New town does want it back.

rbreslow wrote:How about having S.E.P.T.A. offering the township the chance to pay for electrification and new track age and if they decline.

Already done. It's the operating costs that are the rub.

HI GUYS,

I have read the vast majority of this thread. If any of you wish to continue an attempt at getting the line restored, here are links to the two Senators in that area. Ya may try peppering them...

http://www.senatormcilhinney.com/
This is his turf.
and

http://www.senatortomlinson.com/
His turf closly boarders that area.

I live near this line, and remember when it was in full operation.. I am well aquainted with Tomlinsons 'right hand man'. I hav'nt yet had a chance to speak with him about this but I will next time I run into him. In the meen time maybe you guys could start to flood they're offices with emails containing the ideas and other details I have read here.. That may get the fire started...

Good Luck..

Jim

Everyone: I discovered that a meeting of the Newtown Branch Preservation Foundation-a organization formed to preserve
the former RDG/SEPTA Fox Chase-Newtown Rail Line-will have a meeting and presentation on Saturday January 7tth
at Maggio's Famous Pizza and Ribs which is located at 400 Second Street Pike in Southampton,PA between
12:30 and 2:00 pm...It looks like this may be interesting for those interested in the Newtown Line...

Links: http://www.newtownfoundation.org
http://www.maggiosrestaurant.com

They have posted a PDF Event Flyer about this event on their home page...MACTRAXX

This is very good news.

In the continuing obliteration of this line, all of the remaining grade crossing protection (flashers, highway and pedestrian gates) has been removed from the Rhawn Street crossing within the last few weeks. Although long out of service, they were a nostalgic reminder of what once was.

Yeah, they're getting ready to install a four-quadrant quiet zone. For MoW storage. I would think crossbucks would still be a requirement though.

limejuice wrote:Yeah, they're getting ready to install a four-quadrant quiet zone. For MoW storage. I would think crossbucks would still be a requirement though.

Can I get advance notice of the next fire sale for the old stuff that gets pulled down?

glennk419 wrote:In the continuing obliteration of this line, all of the remaining grade crossing protection (flashers, highway and pedestrian gates) has been removed from the Rhawn Street crossing within the last few weeks. Although long out of service, they were a nostalgic reminder of what once was.

Yeah but they were an eyesore for many years. I'm glad to see them go. They have planted some trees and put down some new grass on the north side of the crossing, it looks pretty nice.

I kind of miss the NB signal just below Rhawn though. This got removed years ago, I want to say maybe early 2000's. It was kept in service (displaying all red) until the end I believe despite no trains crossing Rhawn in the past 20-some years. Of course the SB signal just north of Rhawn is still there but has been dark for just as long I'd assume.

add2718 wrote:

glennk419 wrote:In the continuing obliteration of this line, all of the remaining grade crossing protection (flashers, highway and pedestrian gates) has been removed from the Rhawn Street crossing within the last few weeks. Although long out of service, they were a nostalgic reminder of what once was.

Yeah but they were an eyesore for many years. I'm glad to see them go. They have planted some trees and put down some new grass on the north side of the crossing, it looks pretty nice.

I kind of miss the NB signal just below Rhawn though. This got removed years ago, I want to say maybe early 2000's. It was kept in service (displaying all red) until the end I believe despite no trains crossing Rhawn in the past 20-some years. Of course the SB signal just north of Rhawn is still there but has been dark for just as long I'd assume.

Once the north interlocking was taken out of service and the catenary truncated, the track signals no longer served any purpose. I wonder if the 562 installation was designed with future expansion capability for when service is restored?

Actually, I think the grade crossing signals were very quaint. Probably the biggest issue was that they never had "Exempt" signs hung on them so I assume all busses had to stop and observe at the crossing.