Planned new routes

Hello all,
I have never seen a thread on this topic, so I figured i would start one. I was wondering on how many new routes are planned in the near future and beyond. I do know of the Roanoke, VA extension as well as Chicago to Quad cities. Im sure there are a few more that I missed. Thank in advance

Mike Scholz

lirrelectrician wrote:Hello all,
I have never seen a thread on this topic, so I figured i would start one. I was wondering on how many new routes are planned in the near future and beyond. I do know of the Roanoke, VA extension as well as Chicago to Quad cities. Im sure there are a few more that I missed. Thank in advance

Mike Scholz

I think Chicago to Quad Cities is dead at this point. Fortunately, Roanoke looks like it's gonna happen. I don't think there are any additional routes planned right now, aside from Amtrak maybe using the initial portion of the California high speed rail right of way if/when that gets built. I don't understand why for all these years the New Orleans - Jacksonville section of the Sunset Limited shows up as a dotted line on the Amtrak system map. Either restore the service or don't, but Katrina was 8 years ago now. What's the deal?

Matt Johnson wrote:

lirrelectrician wrote:Hello all,
I have never seen a thread on this topic, so I figured i would start one. I was wondering on how many new routes are planned in the near future and beyond. I do know of the Roanoke, VA extension as well as Chicago to Quad cities. Im sure there are a few more that I missed. Thank in advance

Mike Scholz

I think Chicago to Quad Cities is dead at this point. Fortunately, Roanoke looks like it's gonna happen. I don't think there are any additional routes planned right now, aside from Amtrak maybe using the initial portion of the California high speed rail right of way if/when that gets built. I don't understand why for all these years the New Orleans - Jacksonville section of the Sunset Limited shows up as a dotted line on the Amtrak system map. Either restore the service or don't, but Katrina was 8 years ago now. What's the deal?

Well, anything west of Moline is dead, but Chicago to Moline is still supposed to go forward, as is Chicago-Dubuque.

Matt Johnson wrote: I don't understand why for all these years the New Orleans -
Jacksonville section of the Sunset Limited shows up
as a dotted line on the Amtrak system map.
Either restore the service or don't, but Katrina was
8 years ago now. What's the deal?

To get lawyerly, by treating the eastern Sunset Ltd as
"suspended" rather than simply ended, Amtrak apparently
thinks it will be easier to re-establish service whenever
Congress is ready to pay for it. Otherwise the freight hosts
could be even more obnoxious. And in fact, iirc, with PRIIA,
it would be difficult or impossible for Amtrak to start up
a new route on its own, or revive a dead one. But it could
"restore" a suspended route without an Act of Congress.

Now if Amtrak only had more equipment and more money ...


I guess that answers the larger question, too. Until the
crazies in Congress calm down, Amtrak ain't going nowhere
new unless a state will pay for it. Don't hold your breath.

Besides Virginia, Vermont is pushing for more trains, and
plans to extend the Vermonter to Montreal in a few years.
Connecticut and Massachusetts plan more frequencies on
the Shuttle New Haven-Hartford-Springfield. Not much else
going on.

I just learned on another forum about a possible connection now between the Downeaster and the Maine Eastern's seasonal service from Brunswick to Rockland, Maine. So, there's a new one that I'll have to check out (probably next year). And apparently that'll let me ride behind an ex-Amtrak FL9. Hey, it's no Rohr Turboliner but that's still pretty cool!

Matt Johnson wrote:I just learned on another forum about a possible connection now between the Downeaster and the Maine Eastern's seasonal service from Brunswick to Rockland, Maine. So, there's a new one that I'll have to check out (probably next year). And apparently that'll let me ride behind an ex-Amtrak FL9. Hey, it's no Rohr Turboliner but that's still pretty cool!

Is the proposed service from Brunswick to Rockland going to be run by Amtrak, or some tourist/heritage/museum operator? If the latter, why not mention every other tourist/museum/heritage trains to this thread? This will not be the very first year that train has ran, so is it really new?

I think the most interesting concept with the greatest degree of certainty is new Florida service along the coast between Jacksonville and Miami. That should be a no-brainer success and relatively quick to get up and running..

electricron wrote: Is the proposed service from Brunswick to Rockland going to be run by Amtrak, or some tourist/heritage/museum operator? If the latter, why not mention every other tourist/museum/heritage trains to this thread? This will not be the very first year that train has ran, so is it really new?

It's not a new operation but what is new for 2014 is a planned guaranteed connection with the Downeaster in Brunswick.

Expansion of passenger service is for the most part up to the states and not Amtrak. If a state or a number of states want new service bad enough to come up with the money then maybe they will have a chance although equipment might be a problem in many cases so it might be a state investment in equipment too. Without state support probably nothing more will happen. The one major exception is right here in Florida with All Aboard Florida which stands a very good chance of happening in the not too distant future.
Noel Weaver

Matt Johnson wrote:

electricron wrote: Is the proposed service from Brunswick to Rockland going to be run by Amtrak, or some tourist/heritage/museum operator? If the latter, why not mention every other tourist/museum/heritage trains to this thread? This will not be the very first year that train has ran, so is it really new?

It's not a new operation but what is new for 2014 is a planned guaranteed connection with the Downeaster in Brunswick.

I'll point out that a marketing guru with Morristown & Erie/Maine Eastern posts on this forum, and he has said simply that there are major plans in the works for the Maine Eastern line that he hopes to unveil towards the end of this month. But I would consider a 60-or-so mile connecting service germane to this thread .

There are lots of interesting ideas being discussed because of the rerouting of the Vermonter in the Northeast.

1) Obviously being discussed is extending the Vermonter to Montreal and offering new service there.

2) Another serious idea being proposed is branching off a leg of this new "Montrealer" to continue serving Amherst and extending that leg to Boston creating an entirely new service between Boston and Montreal.

These are both relatively easy to accomplish and both have great potential. Boston to Montreal is on the high-speed rail list and this would be a great way to develop the market incrementally.

bostontrainguy wrote:There are lots of interesting ideas being discussed because of the rerouting of the Vermonter in the Northeast.

1) Obviously being discussed is extending the Vermonter to Montreal and offering new service there.

2) Another serious idea being proposed is branching off a leg of this new "Montrealer" to continue serving Amherst and extending that leg to Boston creating an entirely new service between Boston and Montreal.

These are both relatively easy to accomplish and both have great potential. Boston to Montreal is on the high-speed rail list and this would be a great way to develop the market incrementally.

1) On the former, VTTrans secured a grant for NECR to upgrade the St. Albans to East Alburg portion of their line to 286K weight and Class 2 speed. Work commencing soon if it hasn't already. That gets all but CN's scant 2 miles of track in Vermont up to full state-of-repair, and makes it such that further upgrades on the U.S. side of the border only require the Class 2 to Class 3 bump past St. Albans and settling up those easy 2 miles of CN track. The rest is Quebec's getting CN from the border to Cantic Jct. up to spec. Since Quebec has interest, I bet this gets done fast. The only thing to settle up is customs preclearance procedures. Sen. Patrick Leahy has legislation in the U.S. Senate for streamlining those (with specific aim on his home state of VT), but of course no legislation whatsoever is moving this term so that'll get taken up whenever it's taken up.

2) That's got a grant for a formal study. Hasn't begun yet, but we should have some real data to chew on within a couple years. Project dependency on that is upgrades to the MBTA Worcester Line and Springfield-Worcester segment of the B&A for Amtrak Inland Regionals, subject to another study. The Boston-Montrealer would bootstrap onto that, then use NECR through Amherst in pretty much as-is condition. Since the Inlands would come first, the cost for implementing a single round trip would be pretty nice. All-ops, no capital.


Others. . .

-- Of course you've got VTTrans moving aggressively on the Ethan Allen upgrading the VRS corridor to Class 3 with 2017 target date for initiating the Rutland-Burlington extension. That'll be a big deal. Then of course Phase II of the Western Corridor relocating the entire EAE entirely off the Adirondack corridor to hit Bennington-Rutland-Burlington all in one trip. Possibly even with the small NECR connecting branch in Burlington being upgraded to link to Essex Jct. on the Vermonter as a 'union station' for the two state corridors.

-- Then you've got Massachusetts putting the Inlands back on the front-burner, albeit with uncertain funding priorities since the Governor is quixotically chasing Pittsfield-Danbury rail (yuck!) as part of his new Transportation Bill. That's under study. The max-build proposal calls for getting the Springfield Line up to full Class 6, and the B&A east of Springfield to be double-tracked with Class 5 and targeted curve straightening. I'm dubious on whether the money and return-on-investment is going to be available for the whole kitchen sink because they've got so damn much to do getting MBTA territory to Class 4 first and ADA'ing their Worcester Line commuter rail stations. Not gonna help the curvy Palmer-Worcester stretch that is never ever going to get faster, but Springfield-Palmer is nice and tangent and MBTA territory can perform way, way better than it does today. Hell, I think if the Springfield Line gets to Class 5, and B&A to Class 4 double-track (with segments of real 79 MPH on the straighter Springfield-Palmer segment and inside MBTA territory) that it's "good enough" to re-initiate a limited schedule and serves a big enough collection of freight, commuter rail, and intercity (e.g. Boston-Montrealer) to pay off. Concentrate the gradual later speed upgrades on the Springfield Line and MBTA territory where the max stakeholder overlap is and it'll keep getting bigger and better. I just think it's asking too much to go overboard on Springfield-Worcester beyond the base double-iron requirements when the biggest schedule and utilization payoffs are on taking New Haven-Springfield and Worcester-Boston up another couple notches. Eyes-on-prize .

-- Real potential for the Cape Codder to return with the Boston Cape Flyer being a smashing success in Year 1. More track improvements on the Cape coming for Year 2. Eventually they should be able to add a Providence flank, possibly with an Amtrak cross-promo deal coordinated with the Regionals or Acela for a single-ticket transfer at Providence. And then maybe 5-7 years in they'll have all the track up to full speed, the route-priming efforts hauling in significant patronage, and the time will be ripe for Amtrak to come back on its own power. Won't be a costly one to implement since all the track investment is happening locally. Just will take a few years of rolling upgrades before it's ready for them to pounce. I recommend checking the Cape Flyer thread on the MBTA forum to get up to speed on how bullish things are looking out there.

Under the most strict definition its not a new route but a couple of Florida trains, the auto train and some NC service should run over entirely new (for Amtrak) trackage from Raleigh to Petersburg in the next few (10?) years. The environmental studies are currently underway on reactivating the CSX S line between the cities for 110 mph passenger service. The reactivated line will speed travel between the SE and the NEC by more than an hour. The speed gains will come at the expense of service to Selma, Wilson and Rocky Mount (I believe an abbreviated Carolinian and the Palmetto will still serve those stops).

http://www.sehsr.org/reports/feasibility/chapter6.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While it will certainly be a substantial improvement its going to be expensive due to necessary repairs and rebuilding of tracks south of downtown Richmond.

I agree Cape Cod should come back and it will IF there is government support. As for Boston - Montreal, don't make me laugh, there is no more direct railroad high speed or otherwise. The trip from Boston would require going first to Greenfield before going north, yes it is possible but it would be a rather slow ride, a bus on the interstate would be long north of White River Junction by the time the train just got out of Greenfield and Greenfield is a long way from White River Junction. Oh I suppose the money could be found to restore the line between Concord and White River Junction but New Hampshire is not going to come up with it and in my opinion it would be a gross misuse of FEDERAL funds. The states might not have the money for railroad improvements but they get highway funds which might be able to be moved to rail. They also levy taxes, increase their gasoline tax by a couple of cents a gallon and maybe they would have some money for rail. Don't expect a free ride from the FEDERAL government for a train that mostly runs in one or two states, the states need to get off their behinds and take the initiative like California, Vermont, Maine, North Carolina, Illinois and a bunch of other states already have. Sure I would love to see Boston-Montreal service come back but I have to question its real need and the cost will be very high and I for one do not want to see it done on the backs of the FEDERAL taxpayers.
Noel Weaver

Bob Roberts wrote:... entirely new (for Amtrak) trackage from Raleigh to Petersburg
in the next few (10?) years. The environmental studies are
currently underway on reactivating the CSX S line between
the cities for 110 mph passenger service. ...

http://www.sehsr.org/reports/feasibility/chapter6.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... it's going to be expensive due to necessary repairs and
rebuilding of tracks south of downtown Richmond.

Wow. What a blast from the past is that link! That 1998
study said some things would depend on how the end of
Conrail played out. LOL. Well, at least that uncertainty
has been removed.

But it reminded me of the rueful Obama remark that
there were no "shovel-ready" projects. They've been
working on this since before 1998 and so far they have
... they have ... uh, they have ... uh ... Oh! They've
been working on the Environmental Impact Statement.
Well, you gotta start someplace.

Yes, it will be a great project. The study said the then
3 hr 45 minute trip Richmond-Raleigh could be chopped
to roughly 2 hours, from 2 hours 15 minutes down to
1 hour 45 minutes, depending on how much would be
spent on various upgrades.

But probably no big rush. Hard to see running six trains
a day here without first rebuilding the Long Bridge over
the Potomac in D.C. They sure aren't talking a shuttle
between those R-R cities, they mean to connect the NEC
to Charlotte using that S line cutoff. So we'll need an order
for another several train sets of Viewliners (and with
coaches included, if you go to the other thread on that
subject).

So figure $1 billion for the new Long Bridge and $1 billion
at least for the restored S line, including a lot of work
between Richmond and Petersburg (more needed than
ever with the arrival of Norfolk service). Better contact
your Congresscritter, especially if you live in that region.
Anyway, an interesting link.