Pan Am Railways, For Sale/Acquisition/Merger?

If this brings New England into play for CN does CP do anything? Or are they happy with their cut back D&H and Albany oil? Have been hearing for years they want to somehow get back into New England, how who knows. I would think it would have to be some type of service over PAS or nothing at all.

Let's keep it related to effects on PAS and/or PAR. If it's solely about G&W acq. P&W, it goes here:

G&W to acquire P&W

Would it make sense for NS to buy PAS and G&W to buy PAR?

Dunno if you're pondering what I'm pondering (Sorry, "Pinky and the Brain"), but with G&W -- through NECR -- involved in an STB trackage dispute involving PAS, it seems like relationships betwixt PW and PAS could mebbe get a bit more complex under G&W ownership of PW.

newpylong wrote:If this brings New England into play for CN does CP do anything? Or are they happy with their cut back D&H and Albany oil? Have been hearing for years they want to somehow get back into New England, how who knows. I would think it would have to be some type of service over PAS or nothing at all.

Perhaps they'll take a stab at it again (I wonder if they regret pulling the plug in '96? for details read here: http://www.joc.com/cp-rails-intermodal- ... 60211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

It is frustrating that CP did not do more with the D&H when they had chances to greatly enhance it. When they did not close on their efforts to purchase the western end of the Southern Tier from Conrail in the early part of the 1990s was the first loss. If they got that, then they could have gone after the NYS&W in the 1990s also, CSX got part of it with Sealand, one would think CP would have looked at them considering they were running their stack trains for them to Buffalo. Then came the Conrail split, CP got nothing owned. Even if they did not close on the western end of the Southern Tier years before, if they had the NYS&W, they could argued for the entire Southern Tier then. With the D&H sale to NS, they have effectively created a new "Wells River" line for themselves that does not go to the markets, just connections to other systems. So don't expect anything from CP Rail, their chances have come and gone in both the New York and New England markets a long time ago.

jaymac wrote:Dunno if you're pondering what I'm pondering (Sorry, "Pinky and the Brain"), but with G&W -- through NECR -- involved in an STB trackage dispute involving PAS, it seems like relationships betwixt PW and PAS could mebbe get a bit more complex under G&W ownership of PW.

That is such small potatoes it doesn't matter, and since Conn River fees are adjudicating before the STB right now it'll be resolved before the merger paperwork goes before the STB. NS is concerned about CN, not NECR/P&W. It's concerned about the moves CSX will make reacting to CN. It's concerned about what CP, which in 6 months' time nearly swallowed them up but is now on the outside looking in, is going to do. And CN and CSX are concerned about the moves NS will make reacting to the other two reacting. It's all about the Class I's. Everyone else smaller is a gnat in that universe meant to be manipulated by the Class I's for more revenue. So NS is not going to let petty spite games over rates to Bellows Falls and WRJ fester over the long-term, and they won't allow their more spite-prone partner PAR to do the same. NS will work to shore up its own lane, and manipulate what Class II's and III's near and far it can to shore up its own lane. There are certainly means that NECR/P&W can be a tool in their toolbox too...but the "Eureka!" traffic that springs said opportunity could tie in somewhere 500 miles away in some entirely other corner of their network and entirely other Class I-on-Class I battleground territory. They work their chessboard top-down nationally...not bottom-up locally...to find opportunities.

I've never questioned NS's approach to the long term, but while it might take two to stop a two-party fight, it takes only one to start one. Hopefully, G&W will do what it can to make sure all boots remain dry.

I would fully expect G&W to give PAS the shaft (and give back from them) as much as possible.

Most railroads play well together, but these two don't.

Is there some history of conflict between the two companies?

That would be extremely foolish on G&W's part, since their whole ownership portfolio is shortlines nationwide who live and breathe off their Class I connections. It would be very quixotic strategy for Darien HQ to be pushing feuds top-down, because that can bite them in the arse on 10 different shortlines in 10 different states where their holdings are wholly dependent on NS interchange traffic.

problem is G&W they don't interchange cars on time at White River jct to WACR, WACR and CMQ and PAS is trying setting up though route to Newport, G&W is trying to push out VRS and PAS out of the Conn river Valley in Vermont, that's why NECR is charging higher car rates on conn river line, I have a feeling the stb is gonna go PAS faver in the ruling, some one told me G&W is destroying NECR pretty bad. G&W don't have chance against NS, NS is back PAS up over NECR disuputet

Cosakita18 wrote:Is there some history of conflict between the two companies?

NECR vs PAS. A spat that did not exist prior to G&W ownership.

To a thankfully outside observer, it does seem that G&W is taking at least some pages from the Guilford playbook. Seeing how well traffic got built and how happy consignors, consignees, connecting carriers, and Guilford workers were with plays in the Guilford playbook, what could possibly go wrong?

so what the chances that G&W would let PAS into White River again on Trackage rights. i know someone told me PAS handles good amount traffic routed to WACR, But G&W wont let PAS into White River. VRS person, i know told me G&W is never on time delvering WACR traffic. and G&W is trying push PAS and WACR off Conn river sub in vermont. hopefly NS backs PAS 100% on feud against G&W.