• Old subway station uncovered in PATCO elevator work

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

  by Bill R.
 
From the Inqirer:
Elevators for two PATCO train stations have been delayed by construction problems and the discovery of the remnants of an abandoned, century-old subway station during excavation work
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local ... _work.html

I was aware of Arch Street, but did not know that there were stations built under Locust Street at the same time.

Has anyone out there seen the remains of the original station prior to the start of elevator construction?
  by RussNelson
 
Whoa, let me get this straight. The station was built for a subway, the Locust Street Subway, which was never finished. Then, part of it was destroyed by a Center City subway loop that was itself never completed. Now, all we need is for this elevator to not be completed, and we will complete the trifecta!
  by JeffK
 
Did they find anyone down there still waiting for a cashier to make change?
  by BuddSilverliner269
 
Wait, I'm so confused. Patco runs in the Locust street subway so where is this station at? Was there suppose to be another line above or below the current Locust Street line?
  by CarterB
 
From : http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/SEPTA_Broad_Street_Subway

"The Locust Street subway beyond 8th and Market was completed as a bare tunnel from 8th to 18th Streets in 1931 but service didn't begin until 1952. Ideas were floated to extend the Locust Street tunnel across the Schuylkill River to 49th Street but the idea died due to lack of funding. The Locust Street subway was separated from the Ridge Spur at 8th and Market in 1968, when the Ben Franklin Bridge service was handed over to the new PATCO High-Speed Line."
  by radioboy
 
BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Wait, I'm so confused. Patco runs in the Locust street subway so where is this station at? Was there suppose to be another line above or below the current Locust Street line?
The Locust St. Subway was a planned Philadelphia subway, along with ones on Chestnut Street and Arch Street. When it never came to fruition, it got tied into the Bridge Line and later PATCO.
  by interlocking
 
It is actually the second station at that location. It would be a similar situation if somebody constructed a subway along Arch street and had to remove the existing tunnel sections.
  by josef
 
Wait, there are old stations on Arch Street too?

This is beyond depressing. At this rate I'm amazed the BSS and MFL ever got built. How has Philadelphia been this disappointing a place for rail projects for decades?! What the hell is wrong with the people who ran this place?
  by radioboy
 
josef wrote:Wait, there are old stations on Arch Street too?

This is beyond depressing. At this rate I'm amazed the BSS and MFL ever got built. How has Philadelphia been this disappointing a place for rail projects for decades?! What the hell is wrong with the people who ran this place?
No, just a very short segment of tunnel. Lore says the TLA had an escape into the tunnel during its seedier days.
  by BuddCar711
 
josef wrote:Wait, there are old stations on Arch Street too?

This is beyond depressing. At this rate I'm amazed the BSS and MFL ever got built. How has Philadelphia been this disappointing a place for rail projects for decades?! What the hell is wrong with the people who ran this place?
At least the B.S.S. and the M.F.L. got built. Look at Cincinnati. They have half the system completed and is still unused.
  by TWTRTECH
 
josef wrote:Wait, there are old stations on Arch Street too?

This is beyond depressing. At this rate I'm amazed the BSS and MFL ever got built. How has Philadelphia been this disappointing a place for rail projects for decades?! What the hell is wrong with the people who ran this place?
Some photos of the Arch street subway, never completed.. Imagehttp://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=41715Imagehttp://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=71133Imagehttp://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchi ... etId=71134
  by Bill R.
 
josef wrote:How has Philadelphia been this disappointing a place for rail projects for decades?! What the hell is wrong with the people who ran this place?
In a nutshell, like much of what we see in today's society, corporate influence trumped good public policy. The original private sector transit operator - Philadelphia Rapid Transit (PRT) - was heavily invested in the streetcar mode of transport. PRT built the Market Street tunnel due to the demand for transit service and the congestion in Center City Philadelphia, but was unwilling to pursue other subway projects due to construction related costs and the financial condition of the company. PRT also did not build any of the proposed elevated lines other than West Market Street. The City of Philadelphia never mandated rapid transit extensions as part of the PRT operating franchise.

PRT certainly did not want a municipal subway operation that would have provided competition for the streetcar network. In concert with the economic circumstances created by the existence of World War One, PRT president Thomas Mitten, operating within the Tammany Hall-like atmosphere prevalent in the Philadelphia city government, was able to thwart much of the proposed subway system that Philadelphia Transit Commissioner A. Merrit Taylor was attempting to advance. The Broad Street Subway was eventually built, but it was also delayed long enough that none of the proposed branches were ever built due to the economic conditions created by the Great Depression. Unlike New York City, Philadelphia did not move forward with subway expansion as a way to alleviate the crushing unemployment of the period.

World War Two diverted any resources that might have been available, and post-war declines in transit ridership coupled with - and created by - flight to the suburbs provided little incentive for system expansion. The interesting question is why Philadelphia was essentially bypassed for subway expansion during the UMTA period of the late 1960's and 1970's. PATCO came into existence then, but SEPTA was only able to expand the Broad Street Subway south from Snyder to Pattison. Perhaps the I-95 construction, which required a segment of the Market Frankford Line to be rebuilt, and the Center City Commuter Tunnel absorbed the majority of the funding available for the region?