Official "Maple Leaf" Thread

[25Hz]

Why would the Park Service have any interest in owning part of a bridge in an area that they don't do anything else?

They have jurisdiction over many structures, including bridges, all over the country. Just trying to be creative.

[25Hz]

Given 1) the lack of a good alternative route (even if the ML went from Depew and looped around the city to cross the bridge to Ft. Erie, it would bypass the current stops at Exchange St, Niagara Falls NY, Niagara Falls ON, St. Catherines and Grimsby), and 2) the very short length of track at issue, it's a pretty good bet that some combination of NYS, Ontario, VIA and Amtrak (maybe through the mechanism of the NFBC) will either buy the track (probably get it for close to scrap value) or pay CN to maintain it. Sen. Schumer, your phone is ringing!

Totally agree.

[joshuahouse]

Why would the Park Service have any interest in owning part of a bridge in an area that they don't do anything else?

They have jurisdiction over many structures, including bridges, all over the country. Just trying to be creative.

The Park Service does not take over random structures on a regular basis, especially ones that have a useful function that are owned by International Commissions. It would at the very least require a study, support by the local congressional members, and something resembling a decent reason.

[Mr.T]

Has there been any word on what the actual costs would be? If its only a mile of track and some extra maintenance on a structure that has to be maintained for road traffic anyway, then I can't imagine it would be an enormous amount of money. Rerouting to cross at Buffalo/Ft. Erie might actually be the more expensive option, depending what upgrades would be required Ft. Erie-Hamilton.

[NS VIA FAN]

Why would the Park Service have any interest in owning part of a bridge in an area that they don't do anything else?

They have jurisdiction over many structures, including bridges, all over the country. Just trying to be creative.

In reading through the Niagara Bridge Commission web page it would certainly appear the bridge is already owned by a International “joint” US & Canada Commission (Joint = one major hurdle overcome right there!)

So my take on this……the track will be acquired and maintained like the road surface. Amtrak and VIA will pay a “Toll” to cross just like a car does on the lower deck.

The total distance involved is less than a mile (about 0.7) from the junction with CSX to the VIA Station. This includes the bridge crossing plus a short section of approach track on each side.

[25Hz]

Who owns the track on the NY side up to the bridge?

Also, I believe there is also a pedestrian walkway, but I couldn't see it from my seat.

[NS VIA FAN]

Who owns the track on the NY side up to the bridge?

Also, I believe there is also a pedestrian walkway, but I couldn't see it from my seat.

CN......from the junction with CSX to the bridge and it’s only a fraction of a mile.

This area was one know as Suspension Bridge and CN had a station here. If you go back to the ‘50s and prior and look at old Official Guides you will see that a lot of CN trains to Toronto originated here before crossing over to the station on the Canadian side.

There is a pedestrian walkway but I don’t know if it is still used since the bridge was converted to a NEXUS only crossing for cars and light trucks.......but you can definitely walk across the Rainbow Bridge

[Ridgefielder]

Sounds to me that amtrak may end up paying for this.

There is some advantage to Amtrak "owning" this. Personally, I think the more ROW Amtrak can own or control (to some reasonable point) the better.

Where would Amtrak find the cash to buy the abandoned corridor. Historically, Amtrak hasn't bought abandoned corridors in the past, why should they start doing so now? Let the State of New York buy the corridor is they wish, like every other State that has done so.

Didn't Amtrak buy the old B&A passenger main from Post Road Jct. to Rensselear after PC pulled the rails back in the '70s?

[TomNelligan]

Didn't Amtrak buy the old B&A passenger main from Post Road Jct. to Rensselear after PC pulled the rails back in the '70s?

Yes, following the restoration of the Lake Shore and its Boston section after a hiatus of a couple years early in the Amtrak era. The discontinuance of its Penn Central predecessor on 5/1/71 had led PC to rip up what had become an unused piece of track.

[25Hz]

Even if they decided to use the MC bridge, it'd need a track reconfiguration & reverse move.

This is so stupid. I wish whatever solution they decide on would be made public all ready.

Also: I don't think VIA crews are qualified over the port erie route.

[Noel Weaver]

I think the crux of this matter is that CN is looking for $$$$ in order to continue use of this bridge. It is by far the best although I agree it is not the only route that can be used to get from Buffalo to Toronto. The CN line from Niagara Falls to Hamilton is in decent condition and is likely to continue to receive decent maintenance from the CN. The train serves Niagara Falls on both sides and is a link between Niagara Falls and Toronto as a Via train. No matter what happens to this bridge both Via and Amtrak will continue to serve Niagara Falls and a through train from one to the other only makes a lot of sense. I have crossed both this bridge and the abandoned NYC bridge at Niagara Falls a number of times and this one should not be shut down to rail traffic. I think CN is cutting an important even if unused link in their freight operations too, it would only take one major derailment in a bad location to force them to use this link, I hope it does not happen but there is always a chance it could. Closing this bridge to rail operation would result in only one rail crossing between Michigan and the east end of Lake Ontario and the bridge between Buffalo and Fort Erie is old and single track, I find it difficult to believe that CN is trying to do this and think it is just a money issue, they want money.
Noel Weaver

[matthewsaggie]

Does anyone besides me think its strange that this issue pops up, shortly after Amtrak files a complaint about CN train handling on the old IC routes? Is it really a coincidence? Or a stick in the eye?

[R36 Combine Coach]

It is ironic (somewhat) that the existing Whirlpool Rapids Bridge is older (1897) than the adjacent 1925 rail bridge now abandoned.

[NS VIA FAN]

Does anyone besides me think its strange that this issue pops up, shortly after Amtrak files a complaint about CN train handling on the old IC routes? Is it really a coincidence? Or a stick in the eye?

The line was already listed to discontinue on CN's "Three-Year Rail Network Plan" on Dec 19, 2011 and has been for awhile previous to that: (See Ontario: Grimsby Sub)

http://www.cn.ca/documents/About-CN-Com ... 219-en.pdf

[25Hz]

I agree it's foolish to discontinue a border crossing in such a geographically strategic location, even if they don't use it presently.

What will likely happen is CN gets some tax break or some other incentive to keep the link active.