NYC Signal Bridges, Early 1900s

Anyone have a better photo or illustration of an early NYC signal bridge, with the cabin on it? This is Bergen NY. Notice the signalman's cabin right on the bridge.

Thanks.

Anyone know if 12 was @ Savannah?

Thanks for the closeup.

TrainDetainer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:24 pm Anyone know if 12 was @ Savannah?

Very cool pic, thanks for posting that!

I have a 1943 NYC Stations list. It does not show each SS (Signal Station) but does show Jordan as SS 6. That would be ballpark 15 miles east of Savannah so as a guess, you may well be correct.

Don't have any pics to share. But that photo of Bergen has to be looking west at the NYS Rt 19 crossing. That block of brick buildings on the left (SW corner) is still mostly intact, and the tall building on the right (NW corner) was a bean processing plant\grain elevator. Some of that building is also intact. My Pop talked about "switching cars" at the "bean plant" in Bergen.

Just west of there at South Byron (Ivison Rd ? or NYS Rt 237) was a Signal tower on the ground (maybe from the 1927 upgrades ?) and some "helper pockets" where helper engines were stored and then added to westbound's to get up "Bergen Hill".

I knew a gentleman that had an opportunity to spend a day in that tower in the late 40's early 50's watching them add the helpers and cross the helpers back over to the pockets when they came back down. Bergen Hill was the steepest grade on the NYCRR mainline between Albany and Chicago. It was steeper than any grades on the Erie or DL&W mainlines.

Once my Pop scared himself and thought he had "run out of air" coming down the hill, but it ended up fine.

Looks like a large water tank and some smoke on the right, maybe a small engine house for the helpers ?

The smoke is coming from a factory.

I know there was an engine house in Byron.

I did not know there was an engine house in Byron, very interesting, maybe east of Iviston Road ? The old ROW looks wider there.

Would be interesting to look at the old maps for that area, I have not done so.

Very interesting map. One would assume the only reason for an engine house in tiny little South Byron would be to support helper engines. They could not possibly need an engine house to support switching all the local South Byron Industries (chuckle)...

Just a bit North of there was a West Shore Bridge still extant about 10 years ago hidden in the woods over (I believe) that same North/South creek shown in your map.

Wonder why the "Water Level Route" never advertised that they needed "helper engines" to get from NYC to Chicago.

What is the name of that North South road in your map ?

Cheers, Kevin.

NYCRRson wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:47 pm Bergen Hill was the steepest grade on the NYCRR mainline between Albany and Chicago. It was steeper than any grades on the Erie or DL&W mainlines.

I used to hear this from time to time from NYC guys, and it is total BS. We used to call them spoiled flatlanders. Sorry to disappoint, but Bergen hill (actually just east of Batavia) is only .89% ruling (and there are no serious curves in the hill either). Erie is 1.15% out of Attica, 1.21% ruling EB and 1.02% ruling WB up Gulf Summit (with curves over 5 degrees both directions), the Meadville Line is 1.42% ruling between Hornell and TipTop, and with all the curves Summit is just as big a pull (both ways) as Bergen hill. I don't have all the DLW sheets handy but IIRC Dansville hill was maybe around 1.1%, and WB to Pocono Summit is 1.52%, 1.48% ruling from Scranton to Nay Aug and 1.32% ruling Nay Aug to Lehigh.

Streets are renamed now. One of the reasons I went with Lat/Long on my Existing RR Stations site. EH would have been about here.

https://goo.gl/maps/ga8vVkX7V2UezPMB6

TrainDetainer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:12 am

NYCRRson wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:47 pm Bergen Hill was the steepest grade on the NYCRR mainline between Albany and Chicago. It was steeper than any grades on the Erie or DL&W mainlines.

I used to hear this from time to time from NYC guys, and it is total BS. We used to call them spoiled flatlanders. Sorry to disappoint, but Bergen hill (actually just east of Batavia) is only .89% ruling (and there are no serious curves in the hill either). Erie is 1.15% out of Attica, 1.21% ruling EB and 1.02% ruling WB up Gulf Summit (with curves over 5 degrees both directions), the Meadville Line is 1.42% ruling between Hornell and TipTop, and with all the curves Summit is just as big a pull (both ways) as Bergen hill. I don't have all the DLW sheets handy but IIRC Dansville hill was maybe around 1.1%, and WB to Pocono Summit is 1.52%, 1.48% ruling from Scranton to Nay Aug and 1.32% ruling Nay Aug to Lehigh.

Maybe it depends on where you heard the story. Same story on the east end of the Mohawk was West Albany Hill not Batavia. One and a half percent with a 1.63% max and 6 and 7 degree curves.

That's true, I didn't include West Albany, and probably should have for that conversation as invoking DLW pushes the discussion way back to the 50s. But as the main freight route through Albany is/was the West Shore/Selkirk Branch so far back now, remaining operating people pretty much ignore West Albany as an operating challenge for mainline freight. I doubt there's much interaction between NYC and E-L/Erie/DLW people anymore anyway as the split was over 22 years ago now and a whole lot more prior rights people are dead now than still breathing.