North Carolina NCDOT-Amtrak Carolinian Service

Greg Moore wrote:Note however, if you plan on standing in the vestibule, the conductor may remind you that is against the rules and ask you to move back into the main compartment of the car.

(That said, I've seen some conductors really not care (one even commented on the view), some politely remind me of the rules and one who was just plain rude about it. In all cases though, once reminded, I complied. It's their train after all, I'm simply renting space on it for the trip.

This is true. Amtrak does not really allow people standing in the vestabule, but Im sure if you ask the flagman working the last car, then he/she might not really have a problem. Dont just go out there and video thinking that you are allowed to be out in the vestabule. Photography IS ALLOWED, but being in the vestabule isnt unless the train is stopped. When do you plan on riding Mike? Im in DC on Fridays and Saturdays as I run 89 down to DC although that could change at anytime...

One doesn't need to stand in the vestibule to take pictures out of back as shooting through the inner window and the outer window works reasonably well. This is my first trip down the RF&P so I don't need a cherry on top to get stoked.

Jersey_Mike wrote:One doesn't need to stand in the vestibule to take pictures out of back as shooting through the inner window and the outer window works reasonably well. This is my first trip down the RF&P so I don't need a cherry on top to get stoked.

Yeah but if you did get that cherry, you wouldn't necessarily complain about it. Would you

There is always the chance that your view from the last coach vestibule may be blocked by a private car movement. For the Lancaster & Chester Railway's business cars as well as the PVs having work done at that railway's passenger car shop, Amtrak trains 79 and 80 are the only way in and out of Charlotte on Amtrak; no PVs are switched on/off Amtrak trains 19/20 at Charlotte by order of NS.

Now if the owner or crew of such a PV on the rear of The Carolinian allowed you a tour of the car and some time in the observation lounge or out on the rear observation platform, that could be considered whipped cream with the cherry atop your dessert.

I recently completed a trip to North Carolina and back on trains 79/80. On the way down, I traveled in coach class and boarded the train in Newark, NJ. The train was already quite full, and had the normal consist (baggage, business class, cafe, four coaches). What I discovered was that the train attendants set aside certain seats as reserved for parties of two or more, so all of the available window seats were marked reserved and I was stuck with an aisle seat. That's perfectly acceptable, but what I did have a problem with was that all of the long distance passengers were herded into the first two coaches, while the last two were reserved for short distance NEC passengers. A large number of people were using this train to travel to Philly, Baltimore, etc. So, while I had a 9 hour journey to Raleigh, I was more limited in my choice of seats in order to accomodate those short distance riders. Furthermore, when I asked if I could move during the layover in DC, the train attendant seemed less than receptive to that idea (so I didn't push it). So, while the last two coaches in particular emptied a lot at DC, a new group of shorter distance riders soon boarded to fill them up, and I remained stuck with my aisle seat.

On the return trip, I upgraded to business class and the train overall was less crowded. But in speaking with the train attendant about the crowded trip down, I learned that NEC passengers like to use the Carolinian because the fare is slightly cheaper than for the Regionals. Shouldn't Amtrak discourage, rather than incentivize, the use of longer distance trains for short distance NEC passengers?

Matt, although Im an engineer and cant be of any help in this matter, I do get to deadhead home at times on 79 from NYP to Tre, and the way I noticed the train crews usually use the last coach for local travel between NYP and DC. I dont think theres any assigned seating at all, other then blocking off seats for groups and I think thats it.

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Matt, although Im an engineer and cant be of any help in this matter, I do get to deadhead home at times on 79 from NYP to Tre, and the way I noticed the train crews usually use the last coach for local travel between NYP and DC. I dont think theres any assigned seating at all, other then blocking off seats for groups and I think thats it.

That's true, it's not assigned seating, just assigned coaches. Though it does seem that they don't really want people to move around once they're seated. I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill - it's not really a big deal, but it is somewhat annoying to compete with a bunch of Philly passengers who could just as easily take a Regional or Keystone when you're grabbing a seat for a 9 or 10 hour journey!

Anyway, on the way down, the cafe car got pretty empty south of Richmond so I grabbed lunch and got myself a window seat there.

Matt Johnson wrote:

BuddSilverliner269 wrote:Matt, although Im an engineer and cant be of any help in this matter, I do get to deadhead home at times on 79 from NYP to Tre, and the way I noticed the train crews usually use the last coach for local travel between NYP and DC. I dont think theres any assigned seating at all, other then blocking off seats for groups and I think thats it.

That's true, it's not assigned seating, just assigned coaches. Though it does seem that they don't really want people to move around once they're seated. I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill - it's not really a big deal, but it is somewhat annoying to compete with a bunch of Philly passengers who could just as easily take a Regional or Keystone when you're grabbing a seat for a 9 or 10 hour journey!

Anyway, on the way down, the cafe car got pretty empty south of Richmond so I grabbed lunch and got myself a window seat there.

I know you're not making a big thing out of nothing but still, if you paid good money to ride, you should have your choice of seats. The problem with some of these LD trains, isnt the train crew themselves, but the train attendants. The conductor and AC's dont care where you sit, other then you have a ticket to ride, and sitting in the proper car. Some of dem train attendants are some real Bruts(im trying to sound like Archie Bunker)

Matt has a good point here, I rode on 98 once a couple of years ago north to Kissimmee from Fort Lauderdale and the NB train attendant was very helpful but southbound returning on 97 the guy simply thought he was god. On these trains there are no stops to receive passengers after Sebring so I asked for a window seat and he replied that they were for groups of 2 or more people. I answered that the train only made two more stops to receive passengers and I did not think they would pick up very many but he was still not very pleasant. He was not particularly pleasant with any of the passengers either and I mentioned to somebody nearby that they could write him up, of course he overheard me and replied that it could cost somebody his job, I came back and told him if he did his job and treated people with respect he would have much less to deal with. I did not report him but I did make notes, just let him think about what I might do.
Last spring I also made a trip on Amtrak north to Jacksonville and return a couple of days later and everybody in both directions was fantastic.
Noel Weaver

Matt Johnson wrote:I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill - it's not really a big deal, but it is somewhat annoying to compete with a bunch of Philly passengers who could just as easily take a Regional or Keystone when you're grabbing a seat for a 9 or 10 hour journey!

When I go from Philly to Washington, I base my choice of train on time and price. If my choosing the "wrong" train somewhat annoys you, deal with it.

Wouldn't the simple solution be to make the Carolinian a recieve/discharge only train on the NEC like other long-distance services? That way, if it is cheaper to take it on the corridor compared to regionals, you can shunt all the local passengers onto the regionals, make more money, have happier long-distance passengers, and save more seats for the higher-paying long-distance fares.

chuchubob wrote:

Matt Johnson wrote:I don't mean to make a mountain out of a molehill - it's not really a big deal, but it is somewhat annoying to compete with a bunch of Philly passengers who could just as easily take a Regional or Keystone when you're grabbing a seat for a 9 or 10 hour journey!

When I go from Philly to Washington, I base my choice of train on time and price. If my choosing the "wrong" train somewhat annoys you, deal with it.

I would suggest that if longer distance trains like the Carolinian aren't going to be board/discharge only on the NEC portion of the route, the short hop fares at least should be higher than for Regionals, so as to discourage heavy use by short distance passengers. But aside from that, it'd be nice to be able to take advantage of the passenger turnover at places like Philadelphia when the train is crowded. When the long distance passengers are segregated in a separate coach, that becomes impossible.

My impression from watching fares on Amtrak.com is that the Medium Distance trains (Vermonter, Carolinian, etc.) that run beyond the NorthEast Corridor, but still take local passengers on it, do not always have the lowest bucket fares. However, I have noticed busy times near departure when regular Corridor trains have only the highest bucket fares available, and the Medium Distance trains still have some medium bucket fares available. Possibly they have a reputation to some passengers of being expensive, and are occasionally overlooked by the crowds.

eagle628 wrote:Wouldn't the simple solution be to make the Carolinian a recieve/discharge only train on the NEC like other long-distance services? That way, if it is cheaper to take it on the corridor compared to regionals, you can shunt all the local passengers onto the regionals, make more money, have happier long-distance passengers, and save more seats for the higher-paying long-distance fares.

Checking the fares for the Carolinian a couple of weeks out for different days, the prices were the same to the Regionals. Any difference in price on a given day appears to be due to the current bucket price is for the specific train.

Both the Carolinian and Vermonter are state supported trains that have consists similar to an NE Regional, with the difference of a baggage car on the Carolinian and the number of Amfleet I coach cars. Having them serve as Regionals on the NEC likely reduces the state subsidy. If they were to be receive or discharge only on the NEC, then Amtrak would probably have to add more Regionals on the NEC to make up for the gaps in WAS-NYP or WAS-NHV service.

Amtrak knows exactly how many people are taking the Carolinian between NYP and WAS and how many are buying tickets to/from stations south of WAS to stations on the NEC. If the Carolinian starts to get too crowded so that there are routinely not enough seats available for travel to stations south of the NEC, Amtrak can add an additional coach car or just drop the lowest bucket price on the Carolinian for travel between stations on the NEC. The OP appears to have just got stuck with an aisle seat next to someone who must have ridden the entire distance he did. If the person got off at an earlier stop, then just slide over to the window seat while people are boarding. The conductor or assistant can figure it out.

You can get around the assigned seating by boarding the last coach on the NEC. The A/C will mention something about needing to sit up a few cars, but you can just tell him you plan to move at DC and then either do so then or force the issue later. Once he issues you your seat check you can move as you see fit. Just do not let the coach attendant get his hooks into you when boarding on the NEC.