Norristown 'spur'

Why does the short electrified spur branch of the Norristown line exist? The electrification of the RDG main line from Philly to Norristown (to what is now the Norristown Transportation Center) is understandable, but why just the two stops up the stoney brook line? Why not further towards Lansdale?

It wouldn't be a bad idea considering that corridor is booming with housing developments and you can put a Park - Ride @ I-476 which would service those coming from the Lehigh Valley.

that's actually a great idea. there might be some issues with the turnpike though. they'd have to put some sort of toll collection system in place at the lot. otherwise you'd have people getting off at home with a tickeet from the same interchange .

jtaeffner wrote:that's actually a great idea. there might be some issues with the turnpike though. they'd have to put some sort of toll collection system in place at the lot. otherwise you'd have people getting off at home with a tickeet from the same interchange .

They could separate the parking lot into two parts for the local traffic and the Turnpike, one larger parking lot with a fence and curb dividing it.

Edit: Nevermind, you'd still need a toll plaza or something because people would go home to the same interchange they got on at.

The only way your gonna get enough land in that area is if you buy out the few houses there, but everything you bought would be used up with the interchange that there would be no room for a park n ride. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&biw=1 ... CDEQ_AUoAg and http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=40. ... F-8&tab=wl
would prolly be the most amount of land they could buy up.

Elm Street was a terminal in the days of steam operation. Some steam trains continued to the Norristown state hospital, while others went all the way to Lansdale. Those services ended when the electrification to Elm Street opened in 1936. At that time. the population between Elm Street and Lansdale was negligible.

There have been studies to re-extend the service. One was a few decades ago to Germantown Pike ("East Norriton Park-and-Ride"); the other more recently, to extend to Lansdale and Quakertown/Shelley.

A Northeast Extension park-and-ride could probably work in the context of a new DeKalb or Skippack Pike interchange--something which I would argue is needed anyway.

DeltaV wrote:Why not further towards Lansdale?

You can still see some "H" poles on the west side of the Turnpike (driving southbound on I-476 makes it easier to see the poles). I believe that the Stoney Brook branch was electried at one time from Lansdale to Norristown all the way to the mainline to Philadelphia. Conrail ceased using electric engines not to long after their formation. The wires came down sometime in the 80's or early '90's. Ironically, the Reading never ran passenger service along that route. On possible explination was that the Lehigh Valley Transit's Liberty Bell route went from Lansdale (practically across the street from the Reading station) to Norristown and on to 69th St. Terminal in Upper Darby. Also until the '50's the Reading ran passenger trains from Allentown to Philadelphia through Norristown via the Perkiomen branch. However, the Reading did have a some freight traffic on the Stoney Creek branch, but I don't know whether or not they use electric engines much.

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:

DeltaV wrote:Why not further towards Lansdale?

You can still see some "H" poles on the west side of the Turnpike (driving southbound on I-476 makes it easier to see the poles). I believe that the Stoney Brook branch was electried at one time from Lansdale to Norristown all the way to the mainline to Philadelphia. Conrail ceased using electric engines not to long after their formation. The wires came down sometime in the 80's or early '90's. Ironically, the Reading never ran passenger service along that route. On possible explination was that the Lehigh Valley Transit's Liberty Bell route went from Lansdale (practically across the street from the Reading station) to Norristown and on to 69th St. Terminal in Upper Darby. Also until the '50's the Reading ran passenger trains from Allentown to Philadelphia through Norristown via the Perkiomen branch. However, the Reading did have a some freight traffic on the Stoney Creek branch, but I don't know whether or not they use electric engines much.

That appears to be power utility overbuild, using the ROW to transmit commercial power. I'm not aware of the Reading having electrified the Stoney Creek Branch. The overbuild extends from a stub track that begins in a substation along the NE Extension here:
http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#/so2wbdbz9cx7k075

continuing up to the NE to near Moyer Blvd, where the power lines divert off of the railroad ROW:
http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#/8gnwt9mbco0hk6l1

Conrail's retirement of the ex-PRR/PC GG-1, E-44 and any other electric engines it inherited did indeed lead to the catenary coming down in the 80s along a lot of miles of track, including the High Line through Philly and down to Greenwich Yard, the Trenton Cutoff, the (abandoned) Philadelphia & Thorndale and Atglen & Susquehanna, the Columbia Branch, Enola Yard and its approaches as well as other non-Amtrak lines around Harrisburg, the Jamesburg Branch, and other freight-only lines in the DC, Wilmington and NYC areas, but at least for the most part, these were ex-PRR lines. Some of these, notably the A&S, part of the Trenton Cutoff, the former PRR Norristown line, SEPTA's Cynwyd line and the former PRR main line through West Philly, still retain sometimes massive overbuilds for Amtrak power submission, and the ex-PRR main between Paoli and Villanova contain remnants of the original 1915 electrification's transmission lines separate from the catenary that are now used by PECO (this can be easily seen to join the main grid at Daylesford station - http://g.co/maps/jz8yq <- Google Street View).

khecht wrote: I'm not aware of the Reading having electrified the Stoney Creek Branch.

I had to visit my dad after I made my post. I dug out one of his books on the Reading. You're correct, the Stoney Creek branch was only electrifed to that point west of the turnpike at the substation. The substation wasn't there in '58, but was in '71. I havn't a clue about that.

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... mm_292.jpg

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... _4r_73.jpg

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... _2b_21.jpg

To add to the confussion check out these aerial photos, from '42, '58, & '71. The '58 & '71 photos are easy to find the spot of the electrical substation because of the turnpike. For the '42 use the bend in Whitehall Rd just before Skippack Pike to trace down to the location.

I thought the main reason Conrail "de-electrified" was because they couldn't use Amtrak's Northeast Corridor for most of their freight traffic. Although the equipment failures do make just as much sense.

Correct: Amtrak didn't want freight traffic on the Corridor, and their charges to Conrail reflected that. It made economic sense for Conrail to remove as much freight traffic as possible from the Corridor, and that made it pointless to retain and maintain electric locomotives.

BuddCarToBethlehem wrote:

khecht wrote: I'm not aware of the Reading having electrified the Stoney Creek Branch.

I had to visit my dad after I made my post. I dug out one of his books on the Reading. You're correct, the Stoney Creek branch was only electrifed to that point west of the turnpike at the substation. The substation wasn't there in '58, but was in '71. I havn't a clue about that.

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... mm_292.jpg

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... _4r_73.jpg

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era19 ... _2b_21.jpg

To add to the confussion check out these aerial photos, from '42, '58, & '71. The '58 & '71 photos are easy to find the spot of the electrical substation because of the turnpike. For the '42 use the bend in Whitehall Rd just before Skippack Pike to trace down to the location.

I thought the main reason Conrail "de-electrified" was because they couldn't use Amtrak's Northeast Corridor for most of their freight traffic. Although the equipment failures do make just as much sense.

The Stony Creek branch was never electrified beyond Elm Street in Norristown. The towers that you see are "overbuild" and are used strictly to support PECO transmission lines that happen to follow the ROW.