NJT's goals by 2012

Let's just say that it's August of 2012. The 2012 Summer Olympics are about to begin in the NY/NJ area (if the Olympic Committee selects us), The new WTC complex in Downtown NYC is done or close to that. The Newark Stadium and possibly the Nets Stadium in Brooklyn and the Jets Stadium will be built long before then. not to mention that the Jacob Javits will be remodeled and expanded before 2012.

With these important events happening and msotly finished before or on 2012, what projects do you thing NJT will finish by then (realistically)

I think that NJT will have the Boonton and NJ Coast Lines will be fully electrified, MOM maybe W Trenton will be on line, Cutoff is still in the air and the Hudson Tunnels are a strong possibility that they will be finished. Hoboken Terminal will be ready by 2007 or on that year. All light rail/subway projects I beleive will be finished by 2012.

On a side note I think the MTA will have the 7 line extension to PABT, NYP and the Javits up and running or underway along with the 2nd Ave Subway project.

What are your opinions? Hopefully NJT will wise up and get two thirds or atleast half of the projects on their to do list on line by or on 2012. The rest of the NJ/NY area is upgrading and revitalizing. I only hope NJT will do the same.

It took NJT 10 years to electrify the Montclair to MSU segment and build a 1,000 feet of track. What makes you think they can electrify the remaining 25 miles or so in 10 years?

NJT's construction record doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. How many years did it take to build the few miles to South Amboy to Matawan? And, then to Long Branch? Or the connection at Swift on the NEC?

I'd love to think they can dig the new Hudson River tunnels, electrify 25 miles of track, etc in 10 years, but I'm not holding my breath. Maybe they could finish the Cut-Off while they're at it...

Hopefully, one day we would see all of these projects finished and running. The Hoboken Terminal and MOM will most likely be done by 2012, but will the NJCL and Boonton run totally on electric power? This will remain to be seen. But, I have faith in NJT to finish all of the projects by 2012 and have newer projects in both Northern Jersey and Southern Jersey to have more interconnectivity in the system. Going off topic, the Second Avenue Subway is something that has been talked about for 30 or so years and nothing has been dugged in the ground or even a peep; right now; about this project. I really don't have that much faith that Second Avenue Subway would be built by 2012. Hopfully, in 2012 they can even start the construction on the line rather than it being operated. As for the arenas, who really knows what is going to happen? I think if the IOC selects NYC for the olympics, then all of those puzzles will fall into place for the NY metro area.

NJTRailfan wrote: The new WTC complex in Downtown NYC is done or close to that.

In 7 years, I dont see any changes on that property from what it is now. I'm surprised there wasnt an uproar over the resumption of PATH service.

Lackawanna484 wrote:It took NJT 10 years to electrify the Montclair to MSU segment and build a 1,000 feet of track. What makes you think they can electrify the remaining 25 miles or so in 10 years?

The actual constuction (the electrification and the missing link) began in late 1998 or early 1999 and was completed by mid-2002, and opened that September. The work moved along at a good pace. It was the 25 years of court battles that delayed it. Once the final legal hurdle was cleared, it did not seem to take long at all.

BTW, the Montclair U. Station was not part of the original plan, and was conceived of after the rest of the construction had already begun. Having just been completed, that may make it look like the whole process took longer.

F23A4 wrote:In 7 years, I dont see any changes on that property from what it is now. I'm surprised there wasnt an uproar over the resumption of PATH service.

Silverman is paying rent on non-existent buildings. You can bet that there will be something there so that he can recoup at least some of that money.

The press and Silverstein expect the Freedom Tower to be finished in 2009 and the rest of the complex should be close to finished on 2012. So I expect NJT to atleast accomplish a good amounbt of it's to do list. The Path resumption is necessary esp with the limited crossing like Holland, Lincoln Tunnels, GWB and the current Hudson tunnles to take that pressure. Even the ferry serivce only goes so far.

There is alot more controversy on what the towers looks like and if they should be built then the Transit hub which is necessary esp if go forbid another attack occurs and is a must that a certain amt of peopel need to be out on the trains and get the heck out of a certain area fast. It's already damn impossible to do that by buses and cars and that many vehicles on the road will hamper the police cars, fire trucks and ambulances and prevent them from doign their jobs. With fewer vehicles the responce/evac times will be much quicker.

By 2012, it's possible the Newark subway extension will be done as well as the HBLRT current project. Hoboken Terminal will be done. Maybe the Pascack Valley sidings will be done. If NY gets the Olympics it's possible the 7 train extension will be done, though it would be a cliff-hanger. None of the other projects have a chance of completion by 2012. With luck the Hudson tunnel will be started by 2012. MOM wouldn't take long if NJT decided to build it (and got the $); however, right now NJT doesn't seem in any hurry to actually build MOM.

Too bad, MOM is the 2nd biggest project on their board. 1 being the H Tunnels and that should be built before MOM along with the new NJT concourse space added to NYP that was formerly a generator room during the PRR/PC days.

How big is the generator room space at NYP? and where is it relative to the NJT platforms?

New Jersey needs to focus on building new tunnels to Manhattan and creating new or expanded terminal facilities there. This is essentially before any other expansion projects become feasible.

Beyond that, its priorities should be:

1. Completion of Hudson-Bergen light rail line and connecting station to Northeast Corridor
2. Through service from Bergen County line, Main Line and Pascack Valley line to midtown Manhattan
3. Through Raritan Valley line service to midtown Manhattan with service extended to Phillipsburg and Allentown, PA.
4. Double tracking and increased service on Pascak Valley line.
5. M-O-M line.
6. Extending M&E electrification to Netcong

The costs of these projects are staggering: $2 billion/year for the next 20 years is my guess – and that doesn't include money to maintain the rest of the system.

Everything to midtown Manhattan? Penn Station doesn't have the room. Even a "34th Street Station" wouldn't have the room. What's being proposed above is the closure of Hoboken Terminal and all NJT trains apart from light rail and ACL to have a one-seat ride into New York City—something that the LIRR doesn't even have.

And how can NJ truly achieve this without the cooperation of NY city and state...?

Lots of trouble with extending the RVL westwards back to the ABE area. That's been covered on other threads.

As for $2 billion a year in capital projects: No commuter agency has ever gotten that amount of dough from either DC or the states, ever. It'd take a miracle for such money to materialize. I'll just use how Amtrak's been treated as a prime example...and they are the largest "commuter rail" (sic) network, with 22,000 track-miles to run over.

Everything to midtown Manhattan?

That's where people want to go. That's where the jobs are.

Penn Station doesn't have the room. Even a "34th Street Station" wouldn't have the room.

Correct about Penn Station, but how can you comment on "34th Street Station" without knowing what projected traffic will be and how many tracks new station would have? Also, shift in LIRR traffic to Grand Central could free some capacity at Penn.

What's being proposed above is the closure of Hoboken Terminal and all NJT trains apart from light rail and ACL to have a one-seat ride into New York City—something that the LIRR doesn't even have.

Has anyone proposed closing Hoboken? I don't advocate it since it provides better access to Lower Manhattan. I favor one-seat rides for all NJ Transit commuter routes. The railroad wants it, too. Right now, it's not available on Bergen County, Main Line, Pascack Valley and Raritan Valley routes.

LIRR could easily provide one-seat service to NYP on all routes if it had adequate capacity at NYP and fully deployed its 500-series bi-modal locomotives. Right now, only three or four trains run to NYP from the diesel lines.

Also, where LIRR passengers must make connections they usually just have to go across the platform. Such is not the case with NJ Transit. Try connecting from Northeast Corridor to Bergen County line at Secaucus or to Raritan Valley at Newark. You're going to be climbing stairs and/or escalators.

And how can NJ truly achieve this without the cooperation of NY city and state...?

It can't. But that doesn't mean New Jersey shouldn't seek its neighbor's blessing. The project is simply too important to the region's economy. Without it, some of those jobs now in Midtown Manhattan just might go to...
New Jersey.

Lots of trouble with extending the RVL westwards back to the ABE area.

Please elaborate. Are there sections of track that are out? I know the Lehigh line is a busy Norfolk Southern route. Is expansion impossible or merely difficult.

As for $2 billion a year in capital projects: No commuter agency has ever gotten that amount of dough from either DC or the states, ever.

MTA proposes spending $17 billion over five years, not counting LIRR East Side Access, 2nd Ave. Subway and JFK-Lower Manhattan rail line project. Approx. 20% of that figure -nearly $4 billion - earmarked for LIRR and Metro North.

That may not be $2 billion a year. Actually, I'm not sure what NJ Transit would need to raise. I only know they have an ambitious agenda of line extension and new light rail services, and it wouldn't surprise me if they needed that kind of money to pull it off.

The money is out there. If we can spend $100 billion or more to kill Iraqis, we should be able to find money for the transit projects this country needs. It's a matter of shifting priorities and - probably - electing public officials who get it.