NJT HOBOKEN TERMINAL ACCIDENT THREAD

[swampoodle]

With all the innovation around self driving cars, trains could be next. In some sense Trains may be easier to automate as they are on a fixed trajectory.

C'mon man... just stop. You think a f**king robot can operate one of these trains? I'm sure you're a nice person, who's just throwing some ideas around... But seriously shut up.

[jackintosh11]

When is Hoboken Terminal projected to reopen? And what's happening to the NJCL trains that normally go to Hoboken? Are they terminating at Newark Penn?

[John_Perkowski]

Not anytime soon.

[Zuccaraillo]

With all the innovation around self driving cars, trains could be next. In some sense Trains may be easier to automate as they are on a fixed trajectory.

C'mon man... just stop. You think a f**king robot can operate one of these trains? I'm sure you're a nice person, who's just throwing some ideas around... But seriously shut up.

The self driving train technology exists, dominantly in some metro systems worldwide.

[Backshophoss]

It will take time to remove the wreckage,and make the trainshed structure stable,that would include an inspection of the ticket office
and the rest of the station headhouse to make sure the building is still good structure wise.
With the river close by,drainage is effected by the river's water level/tidal flows,and the possibilty that not all the storm drains
repaired after Sandy passed thru.

[ryanov]

Probably for the same reason they're not on buses. Or on anything else like it. In fact, most states do not even require you to be wearing a seat belt in the back seats of a car if you're over 16. Will the seats belts on a train be required for people to wear? Are the conductors going to enforce it? Seatbelt lights? What about people standing on a crowded train? It's ridiculous and unnecessary.

A) They /are/ on many buses in Europe (mostly coaches), and I believe NJT's 16XXX series cruiser buses will have them. B) It may be that most states don't require it in the back seats, but that's idiotic; they clearly save lives no matter where you are in a car. I wear seat belts when I come across them. Most people don't wear them in taxis or shuttle vans, but let's face it, that's not bright.

Similarly, a major five-year study published by Britain's Rail Safety & Standards Board in 2007 came out against putting seat belts on passenger trains — for a few different reasons.

...

So seat belts don't seem to bolster safety unless everyone is wearing them. And that's considered impractical.

Thanks, I suppose I could have looked that up. In any case, some people are treating this like it's a stupid question. It isn't. A study is one thing, and I can see how unused seatbelts could just become another safety hazard, but the arguments I'm seeing here are laughable. "I like to get up and walk around." That's fine, why wouldn't you wear a seatbelt for the 80% of the time you /weren't/ walking around? I ride the train every week. People pretty much get on, sit down, and get off. Maybe they go to the restroom. Also, some people are saying "train accidents where cars roll over, etc., are rare." Car accidents are relatively rare too (at least in my vehicle). They are there for when they are needed. On an aircraft, they are even less necessary. I don't believe I've ever been on a single flight where I've /needed/ my seat belt, and I take 40-50 flights per year. However, stuff happens, and if you're not wearing your seatbelt when it happens, you go crashing into/through the ceiling, or you break someone's nose when you fly through the air and elbow them in the face.

I've never understood people who complain about the "inconvenience" of a seatbelt. If you can't take one off/put one on without inconveniencing yourself, I really don't know how you get through the day.

[Head-end View]

I for one would be happy to wear a seat-belt while riding a commuter train. That's assuming of course that I was not standing near the front looking out the railfan windows if they existed.

[Kelly&Kelly]

Britain's Daily Mail has excellent coverage of the accident, the engineer and the investigation. They put to shame what's left of American news rags and their shoddy, government controlled coverage. Look them up and read of the suspected cause. After 35 years of investigating rail accidents, we share and concur with their excellent analysis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh yea, for the record, contrary to what you are being told, PTC wouldn't have prevented this one.

[freightguy]

After a rash of stop signal violations in 2011 Metro North ordered a second person in the operating cab within the Grand Central Terminal area. It's actually worked out pretty well. I'm not sure if NJT would look into a similar operating practice. Big thread, I'm not sure if this was mentioned elsewhere.

[Head-end View]

Right K&K; Britain's Daily Mail is such a smart publication that they repeatedly refer to the engineer as the conductor. Just as ignorant as American journalism.

[Backshophoss]

HEV,was first refered to as "Driver"(british term for engineer),after that became "conductor" the rest of the article
From 1 of the pics,the cab car coupler might have punched a hole in the ticket office wall.

[SwingMan]

After a rash of stop signal violations in 2011 Metro North ordered a second person in the operating cab within the Grand Central Terminal area. It's actually worked out pretty well. I'm not sure if NJT would look into a similar operating practice. Big thread, I'm not sure if this was mentioned elsewhere.

It really just makes sense. The engineers are well qualified to operate without someone in the cab, but there is just so much to look out for coming into a terminal. If there wasn't such a media forced agenda, common sense and cost effective solutions would be enacted.

[8th Notch]

This 2nd person in the cab is getting old fast. How many trains across the US come into terminals or stub ended tracks a day on a weekly basis without incident? I'm all for adding a second person in the cab to create more jobs however on the flip side half of you saying second man in cab don't run trains for a living and don't know that more often than not, the second person is more of a distraction in most cases. I would much prefer to see some type of radio communication take place between the engineer and a train crew member first if anything were to change related to this accodent. I will hold out further comment until the event recorder details are released.

[Silverliner II]

Trains and track cars must not exceed 10MPH on tracks 1-17 inclusive in the Hoboken Train Shed.

Thank you. My ETT is a bit old, as I've not had reason to re-qualify on certain sections of NJT. It was listed as 15 on all the depot tracks for passenger when I last had need of a timetable.

There were reports on the news that a portion of the cab car had been crushed or that the roof had collapsed. I have not seen any evidence of that in any of the photos and it appears that the car actually held up remarkably well. Despite the horrific situation, the crashworthiness of the car prevented it from being far worse and this may turn out to be one of Bombardier's finest hours.

Alstom, in this case. Yes indeed, it looked pretty intact from the photo angles I saw as well.
A friend of mine questioned me on how it was so easy for the roof of the concourse to collapse. I had to say... as spindly as those columns are.... something that big hitting one is all it would need....

Regarding seat belts on buses: a number of states now require seatbelts on school buses, and seatbelts are now required on all new motorcoaches (charter operators, and commuter-type).

[CRail]

This 2nd person in the cab is getting old fast. How many trains across the US come into terminals or stub ended tracks a day on a weekly basis without incident? I'm all for adding a second person in the cab to create more jobs however on the flip side half of you saying second man in cab don't run trains for a living and don't know that more often than not, the second person is more of a distraction in most cases. I would much prefer to see some type of radio communication take place between the engineer and a train crew member first if anything were to change related to this accodent. I will hold out further comment until the event recorder details are released.

Couldn't disagree more. Having a second set of qualified eyes is the best solution and beats the PTC argument in every speculated scenario in this instance. I know several engineers now who are terrified of being alone and drowsy and old timers who came on with firemen, and rave about the benefits they came with. Humans are expensive to employ, but their cost comes with economic benefits on top of others including safety, which cannot be said for circuit boards. PTC is the jargon that's overplayed and exhausted, not a once common and proven practice that has been employed elsewhere in the wake of similar occurrences.