New layout ideas...suggestions?

Hello, I'm new here but not quite new to the hobby of railfanning and model railroading. I'm fifteen and been interested in trains for the longest time and it's time I build a good layout. I have only a small space to work with and it's 18'x11". I've been looking at layoutdesigns.com's ideas and am thinking of using "Adair Junction" as part of it. http://layoutdesigns.com/plans/0007b.jpg

I'm going to run freight from the Conrail era possibly the time when it started up because i love seeing power in PC paint . Any suggestions? I also have the option at one end to have a rectangular table max 2'6x3'6 as a yard, turntable/roundhouse area, etc.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help!

clbsinvaders,

First off, welcome to the forums and good luck on your embarkation of building your first layout. I've made 8-10 attempts in the last 17 years, most of which never got past track laying, so don't get frustrated if your first few attempts don't pan out. Just keep plugging away, you'll eventually have something that suits you.

Not a nitpick here, just need a little clarification, in your post you said,
"I have only a small space to work with and it's 18'x11". " As written, it says you have eighteen FEET by eleven INCHES. Is this correct? That's a bit tight of a space, but with a little creativity, you could have a decent shelf-type layout to build. My layout is a 30"x12' (2.5 feet by 12 feet) switching layout and has progressed from trackplaning to mockup (I am making cardboard "boxes" roughtly the size of the buildings on my layout to see if my trackplan will work "as is" or if it will require some tweaking. I would reccomend you do the same after you get your trackplan figured out.


"I'm going to run freight from the Conrail era possibly the time when it started up because i love seeing power in PC paint ."

Hey, that's cool. Conrail is/was about eight months, fourteen days older than me, so I'm a bit of a Conrail fan myself, but I model a proto-freelance railroad set here in the Midwest (particularly my home state of Minnesota). For particular info. on rolling stock, etc. I would go to the Conrail "Fallen Flags" and Conrail "Shared Assets" forums here on RR.net to get advice from the guys who are the "experts" on Conrail. (Although, I will admit that I love seeing those old ALCo. C-628s and other 6-axle ALCo. power in PC black.)


"I also have the option at one end to have a rectangular table max 2'6x3'6 as a yard, turntable/roundhouse area, etc."

Hmmmm, it's going to be a tight fit, but that would work. Again, I would build a mockup of the servicing facility to see how big of a roundhouse you'll be able to fit in the area and also how big of a turntable you'll be able to accomodate. My old Con-Cor turntable (now sold by Walthers) was about 13 3/4" in Diameter and I believe the Atlas one is 9". In that space, I think you'll just have room for a small diesel shed and fuel/sand facilities.

Before you build, I would strongly reccomend picking up a copy of "Model Railroad Track Planing for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong, it has a lot of detailed information and ideas for layout design.

Well, that's all I can think of off the top of my head, I hope your endevour pays off. Good luck and keep us up to date on the progress of your layout.

I think I'm going to build it section by section starting with that link to get my feet wet. I'm going to build the "Adair Junction" and go from there after looking at the book you recommended. One thing I'd like to do is put some fake catenary and get some of the Virginian GE EL-C in PC paint...that would be a very interesting project...but I'm getting ahead of myself. Just get started on the first module...

I like the attitude I see here, which is, first, get on with it, and second, don't try to do everything in an early attempt at the hobby. I looked at Adair Juction, and I have two mild concerns. First, it involves a steep grade as designed, along with saying it's meant for operation with geared steam. This adds two complications that I'm not sure you'd want on a test bed layout. Also, there's a double slip switch, again, maybe a little more than you want to be fiddling with on an earlier attempt. (There's a certain UK and European bias on that site.)

I've popped on at layoutdesigns.com, as well as Carl Arendt's site, now and then. Some of their ideas would work well as beginners' layouts, though the space you mention is actually more than they normally work with. I think both sites try too hard to be a little too cute stuffing concept into a small area.

One of my earlier layouts was a "Walkely" style, just a 3-track yard ladder, and I think it was probably one of my most succesful early tries. The ones before that were actually too ambitious. I think a successful early layout is one that doesn't try to do too much -- in my experience, having grades may be a little too much of a stretch for an early layout, since however you add track at a higher level, you are introducing issues relating to more advanced carpentry, or if you use something like Woodland Scenics ramps, etc., you are potentially adding reliability and access issues. I would certainly not try using geared steam locos on an early layout.

I understand what you're saying, and I won't try the steep grade. I like the design because i can see extending the third track from the front and the second as being two-way mainlines and the track in front as a team track, and the track with the bridge in the picture being a branch line...wonder if that made sense

Yes, if you avoid the grade -- or at least lay it out on the flat for starters, keeping in mind the idea of maybe using Woodland Scenics ramp material later on, you'll do a lot better.

Also, the plan uses both a double slip and a 3-way turnout. These aren't available in the more usual US lines of track -- you'd likely have to go to Peco, but Hopkins and Arendt seem to favor Fleischmann, which is unnecessarily expensive over here. Since you have more length than the Adair Jct plan has, I would strongly recommend revising the plan just to use Atlas snap track or custom line switches and avoid the double slip and 3-way. You'll save a lot of money and have better options for compatibility.

You mentioned the Bachmann E33 -- I have a couple of these, and while I haven't punished them in heavy service yet, they seem to be very good locos. Just make sure you have room for them on the runarounds.

Today I started by buying the top board at Lowe's (6'x12"x1/4") and trimmed it down so it's 5'5 now. I got styrofoam (yes, white beaded kind doh. wish i would've known.) I carved out a stream and am contemplating on what to do next so i can cover the white beads...I was thinking the paper towel and plaster method (i have plaster from art that's availible, so no extra purchases) to cover the beads. Should I paint it with a spray paint first? Then lay down the paper towels and paint those as well? Or should I scrap that plan and do something else? Argh...never thought about the beads...dumb me.

Is it too late to remove the bead board and go to the blue or pink foam?

You'll want to seal your styrofoam stream bed before you go any futher... I suggest a layer of plaster guaze or plaster and paper towels... then paint over that with some cheap brown latex paint. You need to use latex because the solvents in spray paints and oil paints will eat your foam (not to mention are noxious in closed areas). Latex paint is water based. Also should mention that a good adhesive for foam to wood is latex adhesive like Liquid Nails brand.

Paint everything flat brown- that way, when you apply scenery, your layout will at least look brown where you haven't covered it yet... instead of plywood or foam colored.

-otto-

unfortunately, due to budget constraints on me (i only have about 40 dollars left for everything, but should get my paycheck soon) I'd like to try and work with what i have, and also i have two one inch thick styrofoam boards that i'm using. How would i adhere those together and then to the board?

and the styrofoam isn't bead, its some other kind. I got it at Joann fabrics, and i don't know what it is. it has similar texture to this http://www.joann.com/catalog.jhtml?CATI ... ODID=12405

Be careful what kind of Liquid Nails you get. There are both solvent and latex varieties. You need to get Liquid Nails for Projects and be sure the label says water cleanup. Otherwise it will eat the styrofoam like solvent based paint.

As long as you cover the bead board with something like plaster gauze, there's no difference between it and the blue or pink kinds.

clbsinvaders,
It sounds like you are off to the races!
The biggest thing I can tell you is "if you have questions, ASK!"
You need to remember that each layout you build you will learn from. Chances are this won't be your last layout!
This is probably my 10th layout (click below for the CIOR).
I still make mistakes, but one thing I learned over the years, FIX YOUR MISTAKES! and don't make em again.

For the foam. Since you have plaster, yes do the paper towel or newspaper and soak it and put it down. Paint it with latex paint.
If you can afford it, go buy a 5 gallon bucket of joint compound. I have been using it over foam now for some time and like the results better.

Overall, just take your time, do a little at a time, don't do more then you think you can (sounds like you understand that already) and go from there.
I came from a humble 4'x8' loop of track to the current CIOR mini basement monster.
http://www.trainweb.org/cior

Thanks for the advice, and I will remember to ask, ask ask!! I don't want to do this badly my first time although i do learn from experience. I've got the foam carved for my stream, and i think i'll carve a very small ditch, glue the styrofoam down, and lay the paper towels & plaster. A question though. I have an Atlas code 100 bridge, and I'll be getting two more soon for the three tracks that will cross my small stream/river. How will I attach that to the foam or should I lay it and let it sit loose? Also what color paint, I saw brown was recommended, but I've also read tan is good too. So tommorrow I'm going to get up early (8 am ) and go to the shop to get more track, roadbed and some nails to lay out the track so i can sculpt a ditch accordingly without messing with my plan.

Throttle, I started on a 4x8 that I recently destroyed due to my basement being finished. I asked my mom if I was allowed a wall to build my shelf layout that I've always wanted to do. I'm really excited to get away from some Bachmann EZ-track and get to learn to lay my own with cork and ballast...sheesh i just have a list that keeps growing, and growing and growing :D

Use latex adhesive or caulk to bond foam to anything, and anything to foam. These adhesives can be applied with the aid of a caulking gun.

-otto-

The best bet with the bridge....glue down the track on both sides of the bridge, then rough fit the bridge into place. Since your using foam, if you have the blue or pink, you can cut them and fit it into place under the bridge, thus holding it in place with tension. You can paint the foam (just remember REMOVE THE THIN PLASTIC FILM that covers both sides of the foam). You can paint it and make it look really nice. The nice thing is, you can remove and redo it as needed.

If you secure both ends of the track you should be fine.

clbsinvaders,

I'll echo what the other guys have been saying, just put the plaster soaked paper towel/newspaper down on the styrafoam and you'll have a good scenery base for your layout. But wait with that until you've done your contouring (hill building and ditch digging). Also, glue your cork down onto the foam before you landscape.

And before you do the cork and the landscapeing, I would reccomend laying out your track pieces and test fitting your track plan to see how it works out. Before my current layout project, I was going to build a 4x8 layout on a sheet of 1/2" white beadboard and used my standard Atlas railroad track nails to hold the track in the foam while I worked out the track plan. The railroad club in Rochester, MN built their layout on 2" styrafoam and while working on their track plan, they used Elmer's white glue to hold the track down directly to the styrafoam (although they painted theirs first... they aren't using cork) so if they wanted or needed to change anything, they just had to spray some water on the glue to soften it and were able to move track as needed.

As for your bridge, do as the other guys have mentioned and let it (and the other bridges) "float" between the two pieces of approach track. Also, be sure to shim the bridge so it will sit level with the rest of the track (get some balsa wood and cut it to look like some bridge piers/abuntments and paint it concrete color (or you could get some plastic brick material and make it look like the abuntments are masonry instead).


Incidentally, since you're building a shelf-type layout, I would reccomend you get a copy of the latest issue of Model Railroader (the September 2004 issue). There is an excelent shelf-type layout featured this month that is based on the Chicago & North Western. Might give you some ideas with things you may want to do with your layout.

Well, good luck with it and hope to hear more as you progress with the design.

BTW, have you chosen a name for your layout yet? Mine is the Gopher State Railroad, named for the proto-freelance shortline I'm modeling. The GSR is based in my home state of Minnesota (the "Gopher State"). Not something you need to do, but just currious if you've come up with one.