New Jersey Seashore Lines: was CNJ being cleard Woodmansie>N

Mr. Ed wrote:Gee! I thought it was pretty clear as to what the end results are going to be. They are going to run sand out of the pit to jobs up north.

That has not been made clear by anyone involved in the project. In fact, it is quite clear there is no need for sand up north that is not being satisfied better by trucks. Having said that, the railroad may certainly play "I have a secret" and let the imaginations of local residents run wild. If they fail to clarify, however, what the intended use of the line is, any resulting opposition based on wild rumors can be blamed on the railroads failure to be a good neighbor.

My statement above is not meant to infer, at this time, that I know of any local opposition to any of the work being done on line this thread is the subject of.

That has not been made clear by anyone involved in the project. In fact, it is quite clear there is no need for sand up north that is not being satisfied better by trucks. Having said that, the railroad may certainly play "I have a secret" and let the imaginations of local residents run wild. If they fail to clarify, however, what the intended use of the line is, any resulting opposition based on wild rumors can be blamed on the railroads failure to be a good neighbor.

Thanks Sirsonic - I wouldn't really know how to phrase a response better. I am a huge supporter of Railroad and its function as mass transit and because there are so many NIMBYs around it is important to keep your supporters informed. People that bought property next to a rail line and are suddenly shocked when a train actually rolls by and cause a public outcry are the ones who really really make this state worse than what it already is. Not in my battelfield. Not in my biketrail. Not in my town. Now we see why the MOM line will never get done because we let this idiots rule the day and that is my fear here. You have the prospect of reviving a rail line that is surrounded by countless retirement homes. These people all vote. Politicians listen to voters. I could see hiding announcing its revitalization to avoid bad press but it will cause a ton of backlash when it the first train does role by. As supporters of what is trying to be achieved down there I feel we deserve some kind of heads up as to what is going on so we can spread the word and talk this up. This will take a lot of BIG dump trucks off the road. That alone is something to celebrate. I'm not asking for the winning lottery numbers here - just something like "here is what we are planning and would like to achieve"

But that's just my 2 cents...

While I am just a rail fan I do have a good contact with Clayton. As I stated on page 60 Clayton's plan is to use the line again to move sand. They are in no rush to complete this project when it gets done it gets done. They have used about 1/8 of the available sand at Woodmansie and therefore have about 30 years worth of sand remaining. They started the clearing just like they did the last time so as not to loose there use of the track. If tomorrow they got a huge contract for sand that could be shipped by train the line would be completed no time at all. I know that Dave Clayton checks here to see whats beeing said, he got a kick out of hearing this thread was even on the internet!when I see my contact I will ask him whats going on but I don't want to ruin the little info that's passed to me. steve

Drove bay Lakehurst yesterday there was a bunch of trucks working down by the stop sign on the tracks. It took only a few minutes but I figured out what they were doing. They are working on the Rt 70 overpass at the tracks and looks like they will be at it for some time.There is a tractor trailer of cement material.This info just in case someone tells you there working on the tracks. steve

That explains why they pushed the Stop sign back up the tracks. They evidently wanted to make sure the loco stayed clear of the work area.

It's not bridge work; they're undercutting the main for clearance purposes, for anticipated double-stack service from a new port on the Jersey side of the Delaware to north Jersey.

UH OH, don't get them started with that one!

I was under the impression the sand was going to be used for the new tunnel to be built into Manhattan

There was a news article from south jersey about beach replenishment and that they got the sand from central jersey. Would that sand pit be able to supply that amount of sand?

Steve F45 wrote:There was a news article from south jersey about beach replenishment and that they got the sand from central jersey. Would that sand pit be able to supply that amount of sand?

dano23 wrote:I was under the impression the sand was going to be used for the new tunnel to be built into Manhattan

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard at 31 Flavors last nite that the sand wasnt going anywhere. I guess it's pretty serious.

Steve F45 wrote:There was a news article from south jersey about beach replenishment and that they got the sand from central jersey. Would that sand pit be able to supply that amount of sand?

I am under the impression that most beach replenishment operations consist of dredging sand from the ocean bed back to the beach. Did the article specifically mention a land-based source? That would be a huge number of trucks.

dano23 wrote:I was under the impression the sand was going to be used for the new tunnel to be built into Manhattan

That's just a rumor! But someday could come ture.

Ken W2KB wrote:

Steve F45 wrote:There was a news article from south jersey about beach replenishment and that they got the sand from central jersey. Would that sand pit be able to supply that amount of sand?

I am under the impression that most beach replenishment operations consist of dredging sand from the ocean bed back to the beach. Did the article specifically mention a land-based source? That would be a huge number of trucks.

My wife had gone to sea isle city mid May after leaving wildwood. Checking on the beach house we stay at every summer. She and her aunt checked out the beach that had been pretty much destroyed. They ran into some locals and officials who said the sand was coming from inland. Granted, yea that is a crap load of trucks. Maybe it was just to get some sand down to get it going then the dredging boats would come in and do the rest. I dont work for the army corp of engineers.

Just received my July newsletter from Crestwood 7. It notes that "the powers that be" will be returning train service to the "old tracks" that cross Diamond Rd and Rt 530. In addition an Operation Lifesaver lecture is to be given by the Manchester PD at Fernwood Hall August 10.

Well that news capped a Blue Comet week after the screening of Professor Emmons of Rutger University new documentary "De Luxe: The Story of The Blue Comet" at the OC Library Main Branch. More info on that http://www.robertemmons.com

Interesting.

Trainlawyer wrote:I believe the sand from Woodmansie is run-of-the-pit white construction sand which is suitable for beaches. The decision on off shore dredging v truck for replenishment is usually based on on relative cost.

Sand itself is fairly cheap and it is plentiful enough that long distance hauls of construction sand are usually not economical. (This is not true of various specialty sands such as the silica used in glass making and the fractioning sand use in gas drilling.) The primary cost is in the transportation and while, yes, the per mile cost of moving a ton of anything by rail is cheaper than by truck you also need to factor in the number of rail miles v the number of trucking miles and the costs of transloading. after you have done this what looked like a sensible rail haul may not look quite as sensible. The way sand traffic works for a rail haul is large volumes going to a location close enough to the eventual destination that the cost of the extra handling does not eat up the savings. With this in mind, a rail haul of Woodmansie sand for a beach, if it is economical anywhere is probably limited to the North Jersey Coast Line.

It is also germane to note that the speculation about sand trains to THE Tunnel sprang entirely from Eric Strohmeyer's attempt to force common carrier service to an isolated parcel in Jersey City service.

GME

I had heard rumblings about the tunnel a few years ago. We've never seen anything remotely as big being attempted in our lifetimes and when looking through the plans, the sheer amount of fill and materials required will be on an extremely large scale. Where everything will come from and when of course, and I will openly admit that I don't know if this will all be the case, is not known, but this does seem to be a viable "rumor." Based on what you say about the viability of the transport of sand and it's use, this would make sense in this setting. Look up to Boston and the New Hampshire Northcoast Railroad. They run unit trains of sand from Ossipee, NH to Boston most of which was used and still being used for the many highway projects in Boston and more famously for the "Big Dig."

As far as Strohmeyer's involvement, I have followed in a few ways some of his past dabbles in Dunellen and Bridgewater with a large amount of confusion and skepticism and just don't see how this would fit in when if traffic was handed over to Shared Assets at Lakehurst, it could be literally delivered to the bore of the tunnel. I know some of his scenarios seem far fetched (check the STB, he is everywhere!) but there has to be some merit to this if it is mentioned in the STB docket.