New Hampshire Commuter Rail Discussion

95% of freight on the Portland Division has telemetry so 40 mph not 30. Still should be 50 regardless.

That and PAR generally accounts for a very small portion of overall Downeaster delays. Slow commuter trains on the T are by far the greatest source of delays. I think in general PAR has been a very fair operator.

gokeefe wrote:That and PAR generally accounts for a very small portion of overall Downeaster delays...I think in general PAR has been a very fair operator.

PAR deserves no prizes for not congesting the line with business it doesn't have, even if it is fair to ding the T for congesting its territory with the commuter trains it does have.

What's PAR share of cancellations? (Vs the MBTA). In the end PAR's disuse (and maintaining to only 40mph, and NNEPRA's not caring/sharing) is a bigger challenge than the MBTA's use (which at least ensures a well-maintained ROW).

It doesn't work like that.

If the track is good for 80 passenger it's good for 60 freight. They simply choose to not go faster. 40 is the MAS everywhere on the system. The MBTA also only allows 40 freight. Amtrak allows 50 south of Spring.

The issue of Downeaster delays is maintenance in general not freight in the way.

newpylong wrote:The issue of Downeaster delays is maintenance in general not freight in the way.

I fully concur and feel that NNEPRA dropped the ball on this one. They accumulated capital reserves for a very very long time and probably should have spent them sooner.

Advocates for rail gather at Nashua summit

The chairman of the New Hampshire Rail Transit Authority said Monday that his agency is no longer studying the feasibility of bringing rail to New Hampshire, but is now working to make it a reality.

“We are done studying. We have studied this to death,” Mike Izbicki told local and state leaders during a Northeast Passenger Rail Summit at Nashua City Hall. “We need to start the project development phase.” Exploring all of the potential funding options will now take place, followed by specific recommendations on how to move forward, according to Izbicki.

A recent op-ed from the same newspaper. The op-ed + comments are classic New Hampshire.

Nashua rides the Crazy Train: Kuster hosts boondoggle summit

Rail advocates gather at Nashua summit - Nashua Telegraph

The New Hampshire Rail Transit Authority collected data for the project, and saw a potential of attracting up to 668,000 riders per year by expanding service into New Hampshire.

Requiring a two-year construction project, Izbicki said they expect to ultimately attract 5,600 permanent jobs and 3,600 residential units in the vicinity of new train stations in New Hampshire.

After years of analysis, rail advocates are ready to move forward.

"We've been studying this for eight years now - we've studied this to death. We're now moving into the engineering phase," said Izbicki.

The NHRTA now wants New Hampshire legislators to provide $4 million to complete the next phase of the project, which includes developing a detailed financial plan, final engineering and preparing funding applications for the Federal Transit Administration and the Federal Rail Administration.

Article is behind a paywall ... so 2,672 daily riders are going to cause 3,600 residential units and 5,600 permanent jobs? They do know that we're talking about NH residents commuting to Massachusetts jobs...

Article is behind a paywall ... so 2,672 daily riders are going to cause 3,600 residential units and 5,600 permanent jobs? They do know that we're talking about NH residents commuting to Massachusetts jobs...

Huh, it was fine for me but now it's behind a paywall again.

Here's a similar article on the same topic

All politician "job math" is BS.

The Stupid...it BURNS us!

Says one commenter, causing me to split a gut:

We dont need no stinkin train in NH. Nobody would use it. Nobody with half a brain rides trains. This is so flippin dumb. We got 93 so cars can come from taxachusetts to spend their loot on booze. Besides, nobody lives in NH and works down there. They aint got no good jobs down there anyway. unless you be an upity educated professional. That is just liberal commie propaganda. Them cars stuck on 93 in the morning are just lost and dont know where they are. Thank you Union Leader for bein on the side of us taxpayers and keepin prosperity from spreading north cause we good as is. Go Trump -

I hope that's a minority opinion..

Rockingham Racer wrote:Says one commenter, causing me to split a gut:

We dont need no stinkin train in NH. Nobody would use it. Nobody with half a brain rides trains. This is so flippin dumb. We got 93 so cars can come from taxachusetts to spend their loot on booze. Besides, nobody lives in NH and works down there. They aint got no good jobs down there anyway. unless you be an upity educated professional. That is just liberal commie propaganda. Them cars stuck on 93 in the morning are just lost and dont know where they are. Thank you Union Leader for bein on the side of us taxpayers and keepin prosperity from spreading north cause we good as is. Go Trump -

I hope that's a minority opinion..

That might be one of the most striking example's of Poe's Law I've seen in a while.

Some other... "good" comments (albeit none as wonderful as the one above):

One only has to look at all the empty buses running around Nashua and Manchester to realize we already are tossing too much money into the public transportation rat hole.

Actually Liberals and Conservatives want the same thing,,,the good of the people. It is just that Conservatives know the good of the people comes from individuals, while Liberals think government is the answer. Liberals think that in face of hundreds of years of experience since the days of the Pilgrims of failure of collective government.

Oh my god! You wish full thinkers. The train that runs from Dover N.H. to Boston I have tried a couple of times to get into Boston for work ( Longwood medical area.) and home again. it took forever due to the many stops and I went back to the car, much faster. I also have been on the long Island R.R. going into NYC and it is also S L O W ! the only way rail would work in N.H. is for entertainment. There used to be a snow train ( Dating myself here) that went from Boston to N. Conway. Something like that would work although on a limited basis. If you wanted expanded rail service for large numbers of people it would far out strip our ability to pay for it. We would need several multi lane train tracks coming and going to handle the load. the cost would be enormous. Remember the big dig?? This would be bigger. One last thing... Kuster Rhymes with Kiester which is what she is.

Someone who supports rail needs to explain how rail, which will make it easier for commuters to go SOUTH, will attract business to come NORTH. Unless NH decides to revamp its property and corporate tax structures, there's no profit in moving a well-established company from Boston (the rail terminus) to either Nashua (without an easy way to get from the rail station to anywhere else in the city) or Manchester (too far from Boston to be part of its "ecosystem"). ---- And without a means to be profitable enough to recover the costs to relocate to NH (everything from construction to health care insurance to employee relocation costs etc), companies won't come up here. ---- Establishment of a commuter rail leg from NH to Boston will cost NH millions and will be a failure. ---- And for those rail enthusiasts, answer me this: How many jobs came to NH after Amtrack opened the Downeaster?

YamaOfParadise wrote:

Someone who supports rail needs to explain how rail, which will make it easier for commuters to go SOUTH, will attract business to come NORTH. Unless NH decides to revamp its property and corporate tax structures, there's no profit in moving a well-established company from Boston (the rail terminus) to either Nashua (without an easy way to get from the rail station to anywhere else in the city) or Manchester (too far from Boston to be part of its "ecosystem"). ---- And without a means to be profitable enough to recover the costs to relocate to NH (everything from construction to health care insurance to employee relocation costs etc), companies won't come up here. ---- Establishment of a commuter rail leg from NH to Boston will cost NH millions and will be a failure. ---- And for those rail enthusiasts, answer me this: How many jobs came to NH after Amtrack opened the Downeaster?

Probably the most interesting of them all.

The implication is that New Hampshire's tax structure and location of its boundaries right next to a high density, high value metropolis make it a bad strategic decision to build commuter rail. In previous discussions we've always talked about the difficulties of funding rail projects in New Hampshire. This is a new theory which simply says that rail is politically incompatible for fiscal reasons (as opposed to partisan reasons).

That's a new take on something we've talked about for a long time.

NH has no income tax, so NH gets no additional taxes if jobs are "created". If new housing units are created, they are likely smaller or on smaller than average parcels, so derive less than average property tax while creating the same amount of burden on schools and other resources. So, generally, there is no net money created to subsidize rail.