Names and colors of Regional Rail pre-1984.

Can someone post up the former RR lines before the CCCT opened back in 1984 along with the color of each line that was used.

The PRR and RDG never used colors to describe their commuter rail lines, they used a list of stations or the service's end point(s). Anyway, here's a brief list:

PRR "side"
Suburban Station to Baltimore via Marcus Hook/Wilmington (R2)
Suburban Station to West Chester via Secane, Media and Wawa (R3)
Suburban Station to Paoli (R5)
Suburban Station to Norristown (R6)
Suburban Station to New York via Trenton (R7)
Suburban Station to Chestnut Hill (West) (R8)

RDG "Side"
Reading Terminal to Hatboro (R2)
Reading Terminal to West Trenton via Jenkintown (R3)
Reading Terminal to Landale/Doylestown (R5)
Reading Terminal to Norristown (R6)
Reading Terminal to Chestnut Hill (East) (R7)
Reading Terminal to Newtown via Fox Chase (R8)

That's a brief summary, both companies offered service to Reading, Jersey City/New York and other points from their terminals in Philadelphia but service ended on most of those lines before Septa came in to existence.

Drew

RDG-LNE wrote:RDG "Side"
Reading Terminal to Norristown (R6)

Didn't this go to Reading via the diesel cars?

RDG-LNE: Actually there WAS a precedent to colors on the SEPTA Commuter Rail System-
In 1978 (Thru 1984-just before the CCCT opened) SEPTA issued a set of timetables that had a distinct color for each line.
They did away with the previous timetable forms which were issued by the PRR and RDG and had remained until that point.
On October 29,1978 these timetables were issued: PRR SIDE -
Marcus Hook/Wilmington-red;Media/West Chester-orange;Paoli-blue;Manayunk/Ivy Ridge-green;Trenton/Torresdale-purple and Chestnut Hill West-beige or light brown.
READING SIDE: Hatboro/Warminster-pink;West Trenton-blue;Lansdale/Doylestown-purple;Norristown-green;Chestnut Hill East-red;Newtown/Fox Chase-orange;
Jenkintown/Glenside-beige or light brown;Wayne Junction to Reading Terminal-brown;Pottsville/Reading-magenta or medium pink or purple(not sure which)
Allentown/Bethlehem-lime green later changed to Orange for the final TT issue in 1981(Quakertown) before this line and the Reading line trains ended service in mid 1981 (then cut back to Pottstown at that point).
These timetables were a unification change at that time-specifically mentioning "Operated by Conrail under contract for SEPTA"
The spotting feature was an awful drawing of what I believe was an F unit face-my vote for worst logo of all time perhaps.
They also had distinct form numbers beginning with RR on them with the lower #s on the RDG side TTs.

The timetable format was changed in 1984 with the short-lived "skyline" set with just one TT issue until the Tunnel TTs came out in late 1984. The "skyline" was gone in 1985 I believe and I give SEPTA credit for updating timetable formats as they needed be over time.

From looking back SEPTA in some cases continued the colors introduced with the 1978-1984 TTs into the colors used for the unified routes - Norristown and Cynwyd is a good example keeping the green.

It was very easy to go back and look at my TT collection for those 1978-1984 TTs-I believe I have a full set of all issues in that described format.

Memories and insight by MACTRAXX

R8Guy wrote:

RDG-LNE wrote:RDG "Side"
Reading Terminal to Norristown (R6)

Didn't this go to Reading via the diesel cars?

Not everyone.

MACTRAXX wrote:It was very easy to go back and look at my TT collection for those 1978-1984 TTs-I believe I have a full set of all issues in that described format.
Memories and insight by MACTRAXX

Spot on, more or less.

Jenkintown/Glenside-beige or light brown

Yellow ochre (though I didn't live in Glenside then)

One touch I always liked about the Reading TTs was that for all trains they showed the times of connections for/from Spring Garden St. and Columbia Avenue (now Temple U) with a reference mark "change at North Broad St." and for/from Tioga and Nicetown flagged "change at Wayne Jct." They may also have done the same thing at Melrose Park (then Oak Lane) and Elkins Park with "change at Jenkintown", but I don't remember.

Hi Matt, here are 3 quick scans of Septa RRD schedules from 1981. Id figure I scan this one for ya since thats your current line you ride now.I didnt have time to scan an entire schedule. I have a few of these schedules for the various lines but cant find them,Grrr, unless I gave them to Scotty recently and dont remember. I intend on doing more scanning of Septa related stuff when I get the time.

I moved to the Philadelphia area in November 1986. About a year earlier, knowing I would be making this move, I began visiting the area about twice a month to learn more.

Although I took the train, probably from Jenkintown, to Reading Terminal at least (but probably not more than) twice in the 1980-1982 time frame, I know nothing about life in Philadelphia without the Center City Tunnel. I don't know how people lived without it for so long!

I spent the week of Christmas 1985 with someone who lived in walking distance of the Queen Lane Station on what I was told was the R8 Chestnut Hill West line. I went into town from this station on Christmas Eve. I knew that I had to be careful to not take the Chestnut Hill East line, which was called the R7, when it became time to go back.

I happened to use Suburban Station that day. It got to be time for the train, but I wanted to make sure that I was going down the stairway for the correct Chestnut Hill line. I asked several people if this was the way to the Chestnut Hill West train, and they all answered that I was going in the correct direction for the "Chestnut Hill Local". I realize now that as of December 1985, trains had been going to two different Chestnut Hill terminuses (termini?) for less than two years, and most people who caught what was now the R8 still called it by the name by which they always knew it. And they still may do so!

From the perspective of the old Pennsy side, there are still trains that originate or terminate in their old station (which must have been more important than the Reading station, because obviously, Suburban is still in use as a commuter rail station, while Reading Terminal is not). Come on, is it really that much of an effort to run those few Cynwyd trains to and from Market East or even Temple? You don't find any trains to or from the old Reading side originating or terminating at Market East. I suggest for equity that tracks 0 and 5 at Suburban Station be "retired" in the interest of providing equity to both directions.

Why are Main Line papers sold at the newsstands in Suburban Station, but ones that serve traditional Reading side communities aren't? (Doylestown Intelligencer, North Penn Reporter, for instance - maybe even the Courier-Times, even though their offices are very close to the Levittown Station, a traditional Pennsy side stop.)

ExCon90 wrote:One touch I always liked about the Reading TTs was that for all trains they showed the times of connections for/from Spring Garden St. and Columbia Avenue (now Temple U) with a reference mark "change at North Broad St." and for/from Tioga and Nicetown flagged "change at Wayne Jct."

I wonder how the cost for ink compared to the revenue they got from those stops, whose daily ridership was in single digits when they were closed.

Matt Mitchell
[last passenger at Spring Garden]

rslitman wrote: From the perspective of the old Pennsy side, there are still trains that originate or terminate in their old station (which must have been more important than the Reading station, because obviously, Suburban is still in use as a commuter rail station, while Reading Terminal is not). Come on, is it really that much of an effort to run those few Cynwyd trains to and from Market East or even Temple? You don't find any trains to or from the old Reading side originating or terminating at Market East. I suggest for equity that tracks 0 and 5 at Suburban Station be "retired" in the interest of providing equity to both directions.

I agree that Pennsy's Suburban Station was and is probably more important than Reading Terminal, but another factor in removing trains from Reading Terminal was the desire to make the connecting railroad a tunnel. In order to have through service via Reading Terminal we would need to make a quick elevated turn through the Reading Terminal headhouse and then either continue elevated through a new elevated station near Suburban Station and then on to 30th St or descend through buildings to get to Suburban Station.

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

ExCon90 wrote:One touch I always liked about the Reading TTs was that for all trains they showed the times of connections for/from Spring Garden St. and Columbia Avenue (now Temple U) with a reference mark "change at North Broad St." and for/from Tioga and Nicetown flagged "change at Wayne Jct."

I wonder how the cost for ink compared to the revenue they got from those stops, whose daily ridership was in single digits when they were closed.

Matt Mitchell
[last passenger at Spring Garden]

I often wondered how many passengers actually did that.

the wilmington line ran to baltimore?

The Wilmington Line is also known as the Northeast Corridor.

Nacho66 wrote:The Wilmington Line is also known as the Northeast Corridor.

thanks. I suppose that's what I get for phrasing it like that. I hadn't known there was commuter service as far as baltimore.