MP36 #411 Heading East!!

It is hard to tell weather 412 came to RI because of the 409/411 derailment *or* if 412 was supposed to come to RI anyway and the derailment just happened at the same time. Keep in mind 409 and 411 came from MILW less than 3 weeks before the derailment happened. Like I said before...if MILW really wanted 412, there is no reason why it couldn't be there all ready..since RI has extra power.

AMTK84, the diesel house folks DO NOT know what they are doing. The also have no say so as to which engines get assigned where. The people who assign locomotives are at Metra's "White House". I can guarantee you that the decision as to what leaves the Rock after 411 arrives has not been made yet.

When the day comes that they re-assign an engine, I can guarantee you that the decision will have been made 15 minutes prior. That may sound funny but that's really the way this outfit operates. There is no pre-planning or stratagizing with this company.

I guarantee you that nobody has given any thought as to what the Rock will give up (if anything at all) when 411 arrives. Furthur more there is nothing to say that 411 won't stay on the Milw. It might as well stay. What's the difference? 411, 412, or whatever. 401-427 are all the same.

When the dust settles and engines start moving around, we'll see what ends up where.

bones wrote:What's the difference? 411, 412, or whatever. 401-427 are all the same.

When the dust settles and engines start moving around, we'll see what ends up where.

AMEN!

bones wrote:AMTK84, the diesel house folks DO NOT know what they are doing. The also have no say so as to which engines get assigned where. The people who assign locomotives are at Metra's "White House". I can guarantee you that the decision as to what leaves the Rock after 411 arrives has not been made yet.

When the day comes that they re-assign an engine, I can guarantee you that the decision will have been made 15 minutes prior. That may sound funny but that's really the way this outfit operates. There is no pre-planning or stratagizing with this company.

I guarantee you that nobody has given any thought as to what the Rock will give up (if anything at all) when 411 arrives. Furthur more there is nothing to say that 411 won't stay on the Milw. It might as well stay. What's the difference? 411, 412, or whatever. 401-427 are all the same.

When the dust settles and engines start moving around, we'll see what ends up where.

I politely disagree with your statement that they do not know what they're doing. They, after all, know what's going whare...Somehow...I'm not saying they're perfect, more that I think that statement is a bit extreme.

bones wrote:Furthur more there is nothing to say that 411 won't stay on the Milw. It might as well stay.

You also said that about 409...and, well...it ended up back on RI and 413 was sent back to MILW. So what makes 411 any different. I don't know why you say Metra has no certain way of assigning locomotives to districts, because visually it looks as if they do.

There are the minor places where equipment might be out of place like 205 and 211, however 214 started on NCS, while 211 was on RI...NCS also worked their way through 213 & 212. 407 which was on BNSF with 401-406 went to MILW. Did it stay on MILW...nope, it came to RI where 408-412 are. Another instance is with 202..why did 202 stay on RI after its rebuild, while 201 -which was used on RI for a while- was sent back to BNSF...

Well it appears as though I started a debate!

I know that you are all Metra fans and that's great. But for those of you who aren't sure who I am, I'll tell you a little about myself. I have 15 years on the railroad altogether. I started out on the CNW from 1990-1993, Then the BN from 1993-1996, then the SOO from 1996-1997, also the IMRL for a very short time, and then finally Metra from 1997 to present. I've been an engineer since 1993. I know the industry very well. I know who's smart, and who's not so smart. I don't know everything there is to know, but I keep em on the rail. One thing an experienced railroader will tell you is that everything is subject to change. One thing I can and have told everybody about Metra is that nothing is written in stone, and everything that happens is all last minute. This company does NOT plan ahead. They operate on a knee jerk reaction.

Anyway getting on to business.
AMTK84:
You don't have to believe me, but I'm telling you that the folks at the diesel house DO NOT know what they are doing. In the last five years mangement has gone through three make-overs. The peaople that were there then are not there anymore. What's that telling you? Also take the 400's. Everybody knows that the 400's on the MILW have a bad track record. Maybee, just maybee it's because folks at the diesel house DO NOT know what they are doing. the 400's on the Rock are doing just fine with the exception of 412 going belly-up back in April. The 400's on the BN have been doing pretty well also. I predict that in two years management at Western will go through another turnover. And like I said last night, the peaople who assign these locomotives are at Metra's White House. Western Ave. has no say so as to what goes where. They are all "Yes Sir Men". They get told to send a unit to the Rock and they say "Yes Sir"! I wouldn't trust those people to work on my bicycle.

MetraRI:
I never said 100% that 409 was going to the Rock, it was an educated guess. Also 413 went to the Milw before 409 even made back to Boise. Why? Because the Milw needed 15 big units to replace the 600's. Also who ever said that 412 was supposed to be assigned to the Milw in the first place? Metra no longer has a system for assigning locomotives. They used to however.

Let's take a look at the current locomotive assignments so far:

100-101: Milw
102-104: Rock
105-112: Milw
113: BN/SWS/HC Pool
114-115: Milw
116-119: BN/SWS/HC Pool
120-124: Milw
125-180: CNW
181-201: BN/SWS/HC Pool
202-204: Rock
205: BN
206-210: Rock
211: Milw (Why?)
212-214: Rock
401-406: BN
407-412: Rock (except 411 for now)
413-427: Milw (if they are maintained)

Now does that really look like a logical system for assigning locomotives? It looks to me as though they used a dart board in a tavern decide thier assignments.

now if they were smart (and I'm not accusing them of that) locomotive assignment might look like this:

100-117: Milw
118-173: CNW
174-200: BN/SWS/HC Pool
201-214: Rock
400-406: BN
407-411: Rock (Yes I am on your side)
412-427: Milw (When they run)

Doesn't that make more sense? As much is a loathe a 400, or a 200 series unit, this is what the Rock should look like. And I work on the Rock!

The point of this essay is to remind everybody not to believe anything until you see it. They way they do things today, I wouldn't be surprised to see #3 (that's right #3) in suburban service. it depends on what quality of darts they are using these days.

AMTK84 & MetraRI don't get the idea that I'm jumping down your throats. I'm not. This is just a friendly reminder that there is absolutely no ryme or reason for the way they do things around here. Take a look at the coach assignments. Then again it could take all night to track all of those down, so I will leave that to somebody else.

I deal with this logic five days a week. They should put a tent over this place and sell tickets. Oh that's right, they already do! All they need now is the tent!

Have a good night all!

Later,

Bones*********************************************

Ok bones...I'll give you something for the thing about 413...it went back when 401 came to RI...if that makes the assignment process look any better.

...Hmm, I don't know where to start..your post was like reading a book-

I guess you think RI's current assignments are almost perfect...you just want to get rid of 102 & 103 and bring over 201 and 211..interesting

bones wrote:400-406: BN

I dunno, does Metra really need to buy another MP36....all though, its fine with me.

Even if you say Metra has no assignment "rhyme or reason"..if you look at the current roster that you posted -with the exceptions of 113, 205, & 211- everything is grouped together. The SWS/HC pool got messed up when the servicing point was changed away from Western Ave., so that also has to be taken into consideration.

I'm still leaving the option open for 102-103/104 to leave RI in the coming months....since 100 and 101 did, why not make the others follow.

Another part of the "no rhyme or reason" also occurred when the F40PHM-2's were delivered over 10 years ago. RI had 100 to at least 114....the reason 100-104 stayed is...well, who knows. Maybe they are trying to fix that with the MP36's on RI, and putting the F40's on MILW.

-----
Without making any drastic changes to the current "somewhat rhymed and reasoned" line up...I think this would work fine.

100-112: MILW
113: SWS/HC
114-115: MILW
116-119: SWS/HC
120-124: MILW
Note all of the above would be in the same pool if SWS/HC were still serviced at Western Ave.
125-180: UP
181-184: SWS/HC, additional units for SWS trains.
185-201: BNSF
202-210: RI
211: NCS
212-214: RI
MP36: Same as above, without the 400

Ok, lets bring up control car assignments...I don't want to get into the 8400 "thing", but the 8500's.
8501-8546: MILW
8547-8577: RI
8578-8608: BNSF - Sooner or later, hopefully...someone must have fallen asleep when 8578 went from RI to UP and the UP 8500 trend continued....until they started staying on MILW....now that 8578 is at 14th Street, why not bring the whole bunch over to BNSF.


-----
I think its about time the Metra forum had a good discussion.

Kyle, I agree

Lets stop complaning about things we would LIKE to see happen. Fact of the matter is that we wont see most of the things that get pissed and moaned about.
For the record...

-The F40c's are NO MORE!! (so are the F's and E's)
-The MP36's are here to stay.
-Complaning about locomotive assignments day after day doesnt change where engines run.
-Ditto for the Cabs/Coaches
-Moaning about red plows won't make them silver again.
-BNSF wont fix the KLA5's they have ruined

Speaking of Western Ave. not being all there, was it their idea on which F40Cs to retire at the MP36s came? Cause if it was, they really weren't thinking. Why you may ask? 607 was the first too be killed. It was the best out of all of them (not only my personal opinion, but that of engineers). The crap that goes on up there is unreal. Bones has the idea down for a roster, but Metra never would listen to their employees anyway, so forget that. My preference? For all of you MP36 loves, take em on the RI and BNSF. We don't want them, you may take them. The system is so messed over, all you can do is sit here and wonder to yourself, why do these people do this!?!?! But anywho, ya, that's my rant. Please, feel free to question me or Bones on this matter. We share the same opinions.

MertaRI,

No I really don't want to get rid of 102-104. In fact I will take any F40 over a 200, or 400 any day. But my proposed assignments are based on logic, not personal preference. There are some people out here that would assign a locomotive because of its whistle or bell.

Another thing you have to keep in mind is what I've been preaching for a long time. Fuel tank sizes. The BN pool needs big fuel tanks since they take alot of trips per day. That's why I propose 174-200 on the BN. This way no matter whether #178 is running os the SWS, HC or BN they don't have to worry about fuel.

The Milw doesn't need more than 1500 Gals for a F40, that's why they would get 100-117.

The CNW could get by with several 1500 gal tanks since they have fuel pumps at Madison St.

Most of the Rock trains need atleast 1900 gals to get by. That's why 102-104 appear to be working part time.

Once again here are the fuel tank sizes:

100-149: 1500g
150-214: 1900g
401-427: 2500g
600-614: 3200g

Why would you want 100-112 the Milw, 113 on the SWS, and 114-115on the Milw. And why 211 still on the Milw. If you must put a Winnebago up north, 214 would be the logical choice.

By the way, I meant 401, not 400 if anybody hasn't figured that out. Another stupid thing Metra did, Startng with 401, 6001, and 8501.????????

607 was not the very first to die, but it was close. Any locomotive movements or retirement decisions come from the White House. As for deciding which ones would die first, they used the same dart board in the tavern that they've been using for a couple of years now. In fact, Western Ave. cant even THINK about running 611, or 614 without aproval from the White House. And if they are desperate to run 611, or 614, and the White is is on vacation, guess what? That's right, 611 & 614 don't run, even if they are on the brink of abolishing a train. God help the individual at Western who runs a 600 without Gods blessing!!!!!!

My thoughts:

It's interesting to note that most of the MP36 failures have occurred on the MILW district. Possibly because they have the most assigned there right now, although I admit that's oversimplifying it somewhat...

And speaking of assignments, there does appear to be SOME logic to the current arrangement, although I like Bones' idea better. Even so: Why is 211 still held captive at Western Ave, wandering on MDW, MDN, or NCS going on almost 2 years now? Did this unit originally come from RI? Anyone that knows, feel free to edify...

But anyway, on to the main event. Earlier this week, train 2121 (MDN, Dp CUS 1435, Arr FL 1608) with an MP36 on the point developed HEP trouble en-route, and wound up being over 20 min. into Fox Lake. Several other trains in both directions, due to late meets at Grayslake siding, as well as delayed turns of equipment at Deerfield (suffered by its follower 2123) were impacted as well. Eventually, 2121 became 2146 at Fox Lake, and upon it's tardy arrival at CUS, it picks up a "protector" locomotive before heading back out as 2145. But guess what? It picked up ANOTHER MP! I have heard of cases where 2 MP's were doubleheaded due to one having issues, but it's also been done when spare F40's are available!. Now someone please, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you've got an MP that's been having HEP issues, why would you double-head it with another MP, when a perfectly fine F40 is available? That makes no sense at all. Again, maybe in this particular case there was no choice, since it occurred during rush hour, so I don't know for sure. But if it does turn out that more F40's are coming to Western Ave from 47th St., it probably can't happen soon enough. Be that as it may, however, it still must be noted that this latest incident does little to improve the performance and reliability reputation of the 400's at Western Ave, and it simultaneously enhances Bones' assertion that the competence level there may indeed leave a lot to be desired.

With regards to the imminent NCS and SWS expansions, 3 locomotives are being added to SWS, while 2 more are being added to NCS. Although Metra currently has a surplus of power which will handle these additional requirements, I do hope that the pool of extra locomotives isn't seriously diminished. Some shops seem to have more extra power than others, but ALL shops should have at least one or two tried and true EMD F40's laying around as protective power for it's diesel-hauled routes. Stick to what works.

OTOH, I personally, like the MP36's. The aerodynamic styling, along with the "lightning stripe" paint scheme combines to give Metra a more modern, futuristic, and progressive image, and as such, they have greatly enhanced my photo collection. It's a much nicer visual alternative to the reliable, but utilitarian and boring F40's, especially since the F40's can be so annoyingly ubiquitous at times, which is certainly the case in my neck of the woods along the UP-W, where absolutely no other passenger locomotive dares to tread. That said, I'm also grateful that my viewpoint is strictly from a railfan's perspective, indeed, I'm sure I'd feel a lot differently if I had to operate and/or maintain them. But if you're riding on a train with one of those as its power, and you're NOT riding on BNSF or RI, I'd have to cross my fingers, and hope that you can get where you're going on time!

(btw- For you F40C fans, anybody happen to catch the shot of 600 passing Rondout on page 51 in the August issue of Trains?)

bones wrote:Why would you want 100-112 the Milw, 113 on the SWS, and 114-115on the Milw. And why 211 still on the Milw. If you must put a Winnebago up north, 214 would be the logical choice.

I don't necessarily want them assigned like that, however the assignment make sense if you go back 4 years when SWS and HC were still serviced at Western Ave.

If you go back to 1997, besides the fuel tank logic, what was wrong with the assignments back then?

100-104: RI
105-127: MILW/NCS/SWS/HC
128-178-179: UP....179 was on BNSF at one point, though I'm not sure if it was always there.
180-202: BNSF
203-213: RI
214: NCS
600-614: MILW

And I'm sure the current assignments will get mixed up again when new power to replace the F40PH's is ordered...it can't be too far off in Metra's future.

doepack wrote:Why is 211 still held captive at Western Ave, wandering on MDW, MDN, or NCS going on almost 2 years now? Did this unit originally come from RI?

Yes, 211 was originally on RI. 214 was originally on NCS. 213 and I'm pretty sure 212 have also been NCS power before 211.

Bones,

Thanks for the sanity-check. I appreciate the information, especially the current roster and fuel tank specifications. I never realized how much bigger the F40C tanks were.

doepack wrote:

Now someone please, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you've got an MP that's been having HEP issues, why would you double-head it with another MP, when a perfectly fine F40 is available?

I've made no secret of my feelings for the 400s (I think that MP stands for Mistakenly Purchased, sorry, I just had to do that), but I'm not sure I understand your logic. Just because the HEP fails on one unit, doesn't mean it will fail on another. I could see if all of the 400s' HEP units were suspect, but I don't think that is the case. If I'm missing something here, please let me know.

MetraRi,

I see your point, but SWS and HC are no longer part of the Milw pool. That's why the low numbered 100's don't belong there. Also you are better off keeping a particular group, or series in one place, not scattered. The rock has atleast one of every tpye of locomotive we have. That's insane. On the Rock they have to be very carefull on where they use 102-104.

The only reason the 200's were used at Antioch was to show off the newest engine on the newest route. Well the 200's are 13 years old now . They're old news. Now the 211 is assigned up there because it's named "Village Of Vernon Hills"! Do you really think the passengers care if the Village Of Vernon Hills is on there train? Who ever came up with that notion had quite a few Martini's at the tavern while they were throwing darts at thier "locomotive assignment dart board".

At Metra we are not dealing with railroaders. My wife used to drive a school bus. Even they had a logical system for assigning thier vehicles to all of thier terminals.

bones I do agree with you about the SWS/HC thing, but what are the chances of those changing. I would be surprised if 102-104 stay on RI...I have a feeling they will end up on MILW, but until December/January, there is no way to tell what is going to happen.