More CSX crossing woes: Fatal accident in Fonda

Unfortunately it looks like there was another fatal grade crossing accident potentially caused by malfunctioning crossing protection. I hate to see this no matter who's at fault: http://www.rnews.com/Story_2004.cfm?ID= ... ategory=10

IF this is true as reported it just make me sick. I hope for the families
sake that it's not. Hard enough as it is. IF true, CSX be damed!!! Just
whats needed, more bad RR press. I'll bet ole Chuckie is warmin up
his speaking voice as I write.

STEAM ON
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Sorry but gates do go up sometimes, thats why normaly signs are posted to wait till blinking lights stop before entering the crossing.

More info, It gets worse.

http://www.wnyt.com/x2296.xml?ag=x156&sb=x183

I think we need someone who KNOWS crossing protection technoligy
to chime in here.

STEAM ON
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O-6-O wrote:More info, It gets worse.

http://www.wnyt.com/x2296.xml?ag=x156&sb=x183

I think we need someone who KNOWS crossing protection technoligy
to chime in here.

STEAM ON
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We really don't have enough information to speculate on here about what may have happened. One key piece of information I do not see in the news articles is if the warning lights were operating.

It is illegal to drive onto a crossing while the lights are flashing regardless of the position of the gates.

FRA regulations require that the lights be operating 20 seconds before the train reaches the crossing. The gate may not start to drop until at least 3 seconds after the lights begin to operate and must be horizontal at least 5 seconds ahead of the train. So you have 20 seconds warning with the lights but only 5 seconds after the gates are down.

The possibility of the gates being "keyed" up by the other crew add another level of uncertainty to what happened here. This could have prevented the activation until the other train was on the "'island" circuit.

If the gates had been keyed up and/or the other train was so close to the crossing that it obstructed drivers view of other approaching trains the crew probably should have been flagging the crossing.

The story did say that the FRA investigation indicated the crossing protection was working properly.

<Set to theme Music>

"Cellino and Barnes your funeral chasers, call 454-funeral chaser!"

Simply put, after all the hearings, committees, investigations, someone's going to end up a millionaire and someone else is going to end up in the unemployment line, business as usual at CSX, and good ole Chucky will be still running his yapper.

Just like in Henrietta.

They mention an idling train in the article. Sounds like a train stopped short of the crossing, perhaps someone neglected to flag and protect the crossing and that's why the gates were up?

Maybe this is one reason why railroad mergers are bad...safety takes a nosedive?

But then again there is no excuse for personal alertness, common sense and personal responsiblity.

Very sad.

I have been told by another CSX employee who is assigned to that area that the conductor of the stopped train had gotten off and manuelly cancelled the circuit at the controll box because their train had stopped on the island circuit. When he "punched the button" the gates started to clear and traffic started across, however the conductor wasn't aware of the approaching train and the gates didn't reactivate untill the passing train was on the island circuit. The conductor in question is currently "out of service", pending investigation. As a CSX employee, my heart and prayers go out to the families of the victims and train crews involved. I won't pretend to explain/guese why the conductor took the action that he did. I just don't understand myself, and being part of this company which now has experienced two simular tragedies within 1 year is disheartening.

As background for those not familiar with the area, the crossing in Fonda is on a fairly sharp RR curve, which limits sight distance in both directions, but especially to the west. Even under perfectly functioning conditions, you don't get a hell of a lot of warning there. Despite the curvature, freight and passenger trains zip right through.

And it is true that trains that are being held in the controlled siding commonly pull up short of the crossing (not by much) and a crewman gets off and does whatever he does to get the gates to go up. What that does when another train approaches, I don't know. I've seen lots of trains go by there while somebody in sin the controlled siding, and the gates seemed to work just fine. BUT I also have seen those gates malfunction (back in the CR era) and got very little satisfaction when I called it in.

So anyway, try to have some sympathy for the victim of this incident. Remember that old quote, "But for Providence, go I". This really could happen to any of us.

roadster; A couple of questions come to mind for me.

How far from the crossing does the island circuit extend?
Is it normal procedure to stop on the island circuit ?
I always thought these circuits were absolute meaning they would
activate with the presence of a train,moving or not.

Also does the presence of the third track (controlled siding) change the
situation here?

I've seen trackside at Bolivar Rd. for instance, a train pull up slowly to the
crossing from the east and the train stops. After a short delay the gates
will go up automaticly. These I believe are motion sensing circuits and
as the train again get moving down they come. Are these also on the
island circuit? Thanks

STEAM ON
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The key to this unfortunate chain of events seems to be that they stopped on the island circuit. If they stopped on the approach circuit and the system was a predictor or motion detector the crossing protection would have cleared automatically and worked normally for another train.

I don't know about the current CSX operating rules but NORAC Rule 138 requires flagging when equipment is standing close to a crossing that could obscure the view of highway traffic. That rule also states that if an employee manually interrupts the crossing protection in a multi track situation, they must remain at the crossing to reactivate the system if another train approaches.

The distance from the crossing for the island varies, I've seen a few that don't trigger till we're about 100 ft from the road, and others as far as 300 - 500ft. One example is west bound track 2 MP 429 Sheldon ave. the island circuit is nearly 1500 ft east of the raodway and marked by a "CC" sign, track one at this same site is about 300 ft. The controled siding which has a max. speed of 30 MPH may have a shorter circuit. The predictor circuit senses the increase in voltage as the trains wheels create a short and the computer can predict the trains speed and drop the gates prior to it's arrival at the road. When manuelly cancelling the circuit at the control box, would normally reactivate as the next passing train entered the predictors circuit. I am only guessing here, but if the conductor pressed the button after the passing train was already on the predictor circuit, it may have fooled the computer temporarily and didn't reactivate until it was too late. I am unsure about this point and only guessing at the possibility. Someoine with knowledge and expeirence with these could answer alot better.

Seems like a lot of problums have been comeing up with crossing gates. Tuesday the 15th saw problums with Pottary Road crossing gates were not working right doing know if they had been down or bobing or what.
A slow order covering a one mile strech with a speed of not more then 10mph was to be done I arrived to the seen after Amtrak train 48 passed by caught trains Amtrak 284, and Q377 both did the norm stop and protect the crossing befor knifeing the crossing after Q377 Passed the gates were back and working like they were suposed to with out anyone needing to look over them.

good ole Chucky will be still running his yapper.

Who's Chucky?

Charles Schumer