ME DOT's proposed branch to nowhere

jbvb wrote:I think that the MBTA's 2007 crisis over lack of maintenance on the Merrimack River bridge in Haverhill is going to be remembered for a while in Maine government circles. Furthermore, they know PAR/GTI has two large truss bridges (Dover, Salmon Falls) on the route to Lowell which aren't getting any more maintenance than anything else PAR owns. There are other rail routes out of Maine, but all require going to Montreal first.

Problem is, if your objective is to connect Maine to the national rail network without involving Pan Am, you're going to need to rebuild a lot more than just the Maine part of the Mountain Division. You've got to get New Hampshire involved for the line from the border through Crawford Notch to Whitefield, then somehow get Vermont to pony up for their segment into St. Johnsbury. All that to get an interchange with the WACR. Granted, you could then route through freight via White River Jct and the NECR to CSX and points west; but, that's a heck of a lot of back and forth compared to the direct route via Rigby and Ayer.

Unfortunately, this line, like many others in northern New England, was essentially made redundant when the St. Lawrence Seaway opened the Great Lakes to oceangoing ships, cutting off the traffic that used to move from Canada to the New England ports. And for future passenger service, the ex-Grand Trunk at least passes through a slighly more populated area of Maine.

I think the problem with the Mt Div study when it came to aggregates was that they were estimating cost to delivering to a customer in the Portland area where it really would be a useless trip because of cost.

However, Maietta Sand & Gravel has had several recent inquiries (As of June anyway) of shipping by rail to customers west of the Mississippi. Heck, if they are gonna pay the car rate let em!

Gravel shipments from Maine to, say, Missouri... ey? So several folks are seriously inquiring about spending $30-40/ton in transportation charges to move a product valued at $10-15/ton... that can be sourced locally???

You don't suppose it's the ME DOT making the calls incognito, do ya?

Cowford wrote:Gravel shipments from Maine to, say, Missouri... ey? So several folks are seriously inquiring about spending $30-40/ton in transportation charges to move a product valued at $10-15/ton... that can be sourced locally???

You don't suppose it's the ME DOT making the calls incognito, do ya?

LOL! I believe one customer was in AK and looking for a specific ledge product. I thought too that couldn't they find that out there, but this is what the pit foreman was sayin!

The Mt. Division project probably could be performed for $29 mill. Course, it'll be a 15mph line like the NHCRR and CSRR portion. Might be good enough...

Ian MacMillan wrote:

Cowford wrote:Gravel shipments from Maine to, say, Missouri... ey? So several folks are seriously inquiring about spending $30-40/ton in transportation charges to move a product valued at $10-15/ton... that can be sourced locally???

You don't suppose it's the ME DOT making the calls incognito, do ya?

LOL! I believe one customer was in AK and looking for a specific ledge product. I thought too that couldn't they find that out there, but this is what the pit foreman was sayin!

Surely you mean AR-- Arkansas; AK is Alaska!

OK, going back to the ME DOT's grand plans at/near Easport... Their justification for spending $50+ million is that the port's only hope to "remain" viable is a "direct" rail connection. After reading the TIGER grant application, I'm left even more perplexed:

The connection planned in not direct, but is seven miles distant from the port. Is it not possible to re-establish a direct port rail connection? Is this a tribal land issue?

Why is Eastport's deep draft so valuable? They're not looking at bringing in megaships. The state is touting Eastport primarily as a breakbulk port. Searport can already handle 35-40' drafts, is underutilized, and has direct rail access, so why not promote Searsport?

Stated import traffic potential consists of: (A) fertilizer being imported to midwestern points. Is Searsport not appropriate for this business? You'd have a single-line haul from Searsport-Montreal, so rail service/rates would likely be superior over S'port and (B) Wind blade imports - actually moving now... won't go rail. As it's short-haul business, no-one is going to rig a truck to haul a blade seven miles only to have to transfer it to a rail car and then have to take it off again for trucking to final destination. And the business is going away in about five years.

Export potential - well, Domtar's future is questionable, and they've already stated for the record that they won't ship rail. So that leaves the speculative opportunity to bring in logs to Perry by rail and truck for export chipping/pelletizing. 8,000+ carloads of logs, according to ME DOT. And the chips and pellets will be produced in Perry and trucked to the Port. And supposedly, only 1/3 of the logs will come in by rail. That equates to something like 200 trucks of pellets and chips running each way between Perry and the Port. I'm sure the townsfolk in Eastport will like that!

The Perry facility has a centerbeam unloading track and a bulk transfer track... and a warehouse with capacity for a dozen(?) 60' boxcars... but no mention of what business would move over the facility.

Container estimates are 2,500/yr in 2014 with a 2% estimated growth rate thereafter. The ME DOT indicates that container movements over the port would not be locally originated/terminated; rather, it is intended to land import containers for furtherence to Montreal and US Northeast/Midwest destinations. Let's say they get one vessel call per week - so, the ME DOT expects that container vessels will specifically steam to Eastport to drop off ~50 "hot" containers, and then set off to the next port of call? Considering that typical container vessels are in the 3,000 - 10,000+ TEU cap'y... it's like expecting a unit coal train to stop to drop one car here and one car there... actually, it's worse - a small container vessel costs $30-40,000 PER DAY to charter. If the vessel took just a 1/2 day to go out of route and call on Eastport, the vessel cost alone is $20K, or $400 PER CONTAINER!!!

There's only one way to say it: WTF?

What the state is not saying, is that if the containers are coming into this port, there is another port they will not be coming in to. WTF exactly. Some nobody in the state was out looking one day and discovered this port. I would be interested to know the difference in transportation times to say Searsport or Portland. More than likeley, the ship can beat the train. These people in the state like to dream about no good projects like this, dump money into them, and the state gets nothing in return. Why rebuild something at a great cost, when there are others fairly close by.
Mike

Ridgefielder wrote:

Ian MacMillan wrote:

Cowford wrote:Gravel shipments from Maine to, say, Missouri... ey? So several folks are seriously inquiring about spending $30-40/ton in transportation charges to move a product valued at $10-15/ton... that can be sourced locally???

You don't suppose it's the ME DOT making the calls incognito, do ya?

LOL! I believe one customer was in AK and looking for a specific ledge product. I thought too that couldn't they find that out there, but this is what the pit foreman was sayin!

Surely you mean AR-- Arkansas; AK is Alaska!

Yes! Sorry..was typing on my BB....!

Ian MacMillan wrote:

Ridgefielder wrote:

Ian MacMillan wrote:LOL! I believe one customer was in AK and looking for a specific ledge product. I thought too that couldn't they find that out there, but this is what the pit foreman was sayin!

Surely you mean AR-- Arkansas; AK is Alaska!

Yes! Sorry..was typing on my BB....!

Too bad-- was looking forward to seeing pix of MEC gravel cars on Stampede Pass & heading up the Inside Passage on an ARR barge!

Besides the fact land has reverted to original land owners (has it?) from Perry to Eastport what is with the story of 'Passamaquoddy blockage' ??


The Passamaquoddy got a big money settlement and invested it and I think all the investment crashed.


It would seem they would be interested in hosting a railroad for 'business purposes'. (ya know...they invested earlier and a rail line is a negative?)



Otherwise Eastport has had a reputation of a 'nothing city'. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS POSITIVE.


I spent time there as a kid when it was turning into a ghost town. Can't blame them if industry shuts down. --but-- never anything positive as to 'new business'.

This post was not meant to be knocking anybody. It does seem crazy to have some rail distribution center in the large busy urban city of Perry. (and the old row runs down into Eastport)

As much as I, and others may love the Mountain Sub one has to admit, and see, the parallels with the Calais branch. When they started to route shipments from Woodland through NB to mattawaumkeag and thus down the old MEC line from there the poor economics of maintaining 127 miles of track through some of the most beaver-infested country in New England became very obvious to anyone who could look.

Likewise when the Mountain Sub was MEC's only trackage westerly from Maine it made sense to keep the business in-house so to speak as opposed to routing it onto the B & M. When Guilford consolidation took place the more southerly route became the obvious way to go. Why fight old man winter in the mountains, at exorbitant costs when there were easier and cheaper ways to get to the same place.

I have often thought, after living in the N Conway area for a couple of years that there might be a tourism component to restoring rail from Portland to at least the MT Washington Valley and consequently from Boston to the same area over the old B&M N Conway line, after all only 10 miles is out of service.

But I see no freight components at all other than the sand and gravel in western Maine. Tourism seems to me to be a poor thing to try to build a rail future on other than short length scenic operations like CSR and others.

I am sure I will be dead and gone before any significant freight ever moves on either the Calais branch or the Mountain Sub.

Just my two cents.

SRM

I thought I would post a link to an overhead view of the " deepwater container port" of Eastport. the state pier is hardly long enough for one large container ship, much less the equipment to transfer the cargo to/from railroad cars. The original line ran in the line of trees below third street and ran in the street on the waterfront. The town and old railroad tracks are up a steep hill from the pier. Does this look like the site of terminal that would directly compete with St John's and Halifax. The $50 million would be the biggest boondogle in New England and would rival the Alaskan "Bridge to Nowhere". Developing Sears Island makes more sense than this project. The Indian Reservation is on the narrow strip of land between the town and the mainland. Another WTF.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.74530,-73.68053&z=19&t=H
Bob M

Often times what makes sense and what is political don't correspond. While it makes sense to invest in other places, Eastport may be politically an easier target for funding.

RG, while I couldn't agree more with your post, your map link takes you to an abandoned roundhouse in Troy NY