Otto wrote:
Who runs the show over at Mass Bay RRE? They printed some pretty disparaging/unfounded remarks regarding "censorship" and this web site in their last edition of The Callboy, and I've been trying to reach the people in charge for some time with no luck. Ideas?
http://www.massbayrre.org/post.htm
The only other info I have comes from a Sept. 2001 "The Callboy", the most recent issue I can find from my collection (all my others I donated to my RR club, I think). So take the following info as being 3 years out of date:
[email protected]
P.O. Box 8136
Ward Hill, MA 01835
The Callboy
Editor, John Reading
102 Dean Rd.
Brookline, MA 02445-4212
(617) 734-0209 (evenings)
[email protected]
Program Manager, Vic Campbell
c/o Pinecrest Press
365 Neponset Ave.
Dorchester, MA 02122
(617) 822-4046
That's all I have until my next "Callboy" shows up in my mailbox.
And Otto, while "The Callboy's" comments were certainly disparaging, they were not 100% unfounded. Subjects on the MBTA forum were brought up by posters and deleted by moderators due to security (some guy asked if anyone had any maps of the MBTA) or political (the legality of random searches of MBTA riders) concerns. One can agree or disagree on whether the threads should have been deleted, but one cannot argue if these threads were indeed censored...it's a fact.
TPR37777 wrote:
Someone started a thread on the article you referenced in the MBTA forum just after it was published. The thread was summarily deleted. As would this one if the author were not one of the site administrators. Hence the article.
I was the one who posted "The Callboy's" editorial. When the rumblings of censorship were heard, I took the time to save the thread to my hard drive with the expectation that I would forward it to the MassBay RRE for their reaction (I never did, however). I posted the original comments on Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:03 am, and the last post was on Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:44 am. Please note that it did last an entire week, tho' most of the posters commented on the 20th. The two moderators kicked it back and forth for a few more days before they canned it.
Otto wrote:
...All I know is that this Callboy article in question was full of errors...
Sorry, Otto. While it was written in a tone of voice that was not favorable to RR.net, it was factual. From "The Callboy" editorial in question:
In June, a list newcomer asked for sources of Boston commuter-rail track maps, setting off a blast of criticism that ended with the moderator abruptly pulling the thread off the list. This is what happened. And,
A month later, another clash broke out, when a member questioned the T's new policies for stopping, identifying or searching its riders...others questioned his grasp of reality and demanded that the moderator shut off posts on so "political" a topic. Again, this is what happened. Where are the errors?
...yet no one from Mass Bay RRE contacted any of us here at RAILROAD.NET for comment. Sounds like someone has an ax to grind over at the Callboy.
It was an editorial, not an article. As such, interviewing to get the other side's opinion is not normally done, it's only the editor's opinion. How many times have you seen an editorial in a newspaper with quotes sticking up for the viewpoint against the editorial? BTW, John Reading seems to have an axe to grind against everybody, so I wouldn't take it personally. Heck, he commented in "The Callboy" about my club's letterhead once, asking why we were using a Santa Fe steam engine and not a New England one. Or remember his "Illiterate Railfan" column? That didn't make him many friends (I know I didn't like that column at all).
efin98 wrote:
You have a problem with the moderators or admins doing that? Too bad. That's their job.
Their job is to censor legitmate criticism of the forum and/or this website? That's not part of the MBTA forum rules... Maybe it should be, but so far, it isn't.
Did you ever read the thread or are you doing as the article did and just making accusations of inpropriaty? I read it from the start and I was part of the threads that the article mentioned as examples of censorship.
And as I said above, I have the whole thread in question on my hard drive, so I know exactly what was said. I, too, was on both previous threads that got censored. IIRC, you were against giving out map information to the public, in favor of random search policies (and in favor of censoring the thread to stop discussion about it), and against "The Callboy". Am I right?
The thread was a deliberate attempt to start a flame war on the forum...
No, it wasn't. Right at the top of my post, I said,
"The Callboy", est. 1947, is the newsletter of the Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts (www.MassBayRRE.org). The editor, John Reading, had something to say about this forum, MBTA Rail Operations, in the Sept.-Oct. 2004 issue. The following is posted for informational purposes only and without comment from myself: And then I posted the editorial.
That's it. If I was trying to start a "flame war", don't you think I would have commented myself? Don't you think I would have made additional responses to the other posters, trying to fan the flames? That thread lasted one week, and the only post I made to it was the first one. I made no personal attacks, I was not abusive, offensive, or off topic. I posted an editorial from a railfan newsletter that was about the MBTA forum, and you call that trying to start a flame war?
...the originator has made his position clear in regards to the admins, moderators, and members who post in that forum.
Oh, really? Please let me know what I've said that has made my position so clear, because it isn't clear to me. Sure, I've disagreed with all of the above from time to time, but isn't that allowed? Am I not allowed to think for myself, or are no opposing opinions permitted?
I know what went on both in the forum and behind the scenes, no one else but the moderators and admins would and I would.
Well, since I'm neither an admin nor a moderator, all I know is what I read on the public forum pages.
Otto, the guy who started the thread about the article is probably the one to contact as he is probably the one who wrote the article or contributed a majority of the references to the site in the article- Paul Cutler III.
I like how you accuse TPR37777 of just making accusations without proof, yet here you are doing the same thing to me. I have never met John Reading in my life, nor have I ever contacted the MassBay RRE or anyone connected to it except to send in membership dues and to take part in one of their dinners when the guest of honor was Jack Swanberg. I was as surprised as anyone when I saw that editorial. You can choose to believe me or not, I have no control over that. But realize that the internet has a much wider reach than just me or the people visible on the forums. To put it briefly, it wasn't me.
Also, to even hint that I would write someone else's editorial is wrong. With one comment, you are accusing me, John Reading, and/or "The Callboy" of plagarism (or worse).
Otto wrote:
I must have missed that episode- I only learned about the article after CS told me he saw it in the Callboy.
If you want, I can e-mail you the whole thing. Just let me know.
efin98 wrote:
You were informed as soon as CS saw it and after it had been posted on the T forum for a day or two. That was enough time to allow the originator to antagonize the members of the forum and bring up long dead issues from months before that were solved behind the scenes via private conversations.
I "antagonized" the members? They sure didn't show it. Only five people other than myself posted on that thread in a week, and two of them were the moderators.
I brought up the "long dead" issues because "The Callboy" made them current again. All I did was post it without comment. Fact is, the MBTA forum made a periodical in an editorial and became news. I posted it. The moderators deleted it. So be it.
BTW, how were we mere mortals supposed to know that all this stuff was solved behind the scenes in private conversations? As far as I saw it, the threads were censored, the forum name changed, and comments were made about no map advice was to be given and no more politcal posts about the MBTA (which is rather odd considering that the MBTA is a political beastie). John Reading wrote about it, I posted his comments, which were then deleted. What else was there?
Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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