MARC buys VRE Kawaski cars

davinp wrote:

realtype wrote:

r40slant wrote:Those NJ Transit multi levels were quite nice and definately better then those kawasaki's. This is from a man who has run MARC VRE and Transit equipment.

Well, they're newer, and I've heard the cab is more comfortable. But, they're not certified to go as fast 100mph vs 125mph. The interiors and seats don't seem that much different, although the MARC seats recline (pretty sure VRE's don't) and have center armrests. i don't run trains so I wouldn't know how they operate on the rails though, so I'll take your word for it. But, I do know that overall Kawasaki produces rail products that are of the same or superior quality to Bombardier's. From the various threads on the MARC and Amtrak boards the HHP-8's are despised by crews due to performance flaws.

VRE had leased Bombarider's a few years ago and I could see that the Kawasaki's were of better quaility than the Bombardiers. Bombarier is a Candian company, whereas Kawasaki is Japanese.

Those particular Bombardier coaches that VRE leased are of course, based on the design originated by UTDC for GO Transit back in the late 1970's, and now used by a number of commuter operators. It's pretty much not changed since, aside from slightly larger windows and use of welded skin instead of riveted.

Yes you are right the HHP's are not suited for commuter service, those ALP's on the other hand are quite nice. The Kawasaki's are not allowed 125mph any more only 110mph and those ML's cab are nicer then those MARC's. The Kawasaki's are nice cars i just thought and feel the ML's are better.

davinp wrote: VRE had leased Bombarider's a few years ago and I could see that the Kawasaki's were of better quaility than the Bombardiers.

Having ridden on both recently built Bombardiers (NJT MLs) and Kawasakis (LIRR C3s), I think both are rather well built and comfortable. I'd say either would serve a railroad well. Both are better than Alstom, which just feels a little cheaper to me.

Bombarier is a Candian company, whereas Kawasaki is Japanese.

And that means its automatically better? Bomb's made cars that have been in use for years, I wouldn't say that they make a shoddy product at all.

r40slant wrote:Yes you are right the HHP's are not suited for commuter service, those ALP's on the other hand are quite nice. The Kawasaki's are not allowed 125mph any more only 110mph and those ML's cab are nicer then those MARC's. The Kawasaki's are nice cars i just thought and feel the ML's are better.

Any idea why the Kawasakis were downgraded from 125 mph to 110? Incidentally, NJ Transit's new Bombardier bilevels, while currently limited to 100 mph, are likely to be certified for 125 mph in the near future.

Matt Johnson wrote:

r40slant wrote:Yes you are right the HHP's are not suited for commuter service, those ALP's on the other hand are quite nice. The Kawasaki's are not allowed 125mph any more only 110mph and those ML's cab are nicer then those MARC's. The Kawasaki's are nice cars i just thought and feel the ML's are better.

Any idea why the Kawasakis were downgraded from 125 mph to 110? Incidentally, NJ Transit's new Bombardier bilevels, while currently limited to 100 mph, are likely to be certified for 125 mph in the near future.

And that 100 mph is only NYP-PHL. Amtrak still only allows them 90 mph PHL-WAS...

Matt Johnson wrote:

r40slant wrote:Yes you are right the HHP's are not suited for commuter service, those ALP's on the other hand are quite nice. The Kawasaki's are not allowed 125mph any more only 110mph and those ML's cab are nicer then those MARC's. The Kawasaki's are nice cars i just thought and feel the ML's are better.

Any idea why the Kawasakis were downgraded from 125 mph to 110? Incidentally, NJ Transit's new Bombardier bilevels, while currently limited to 100 mph, are likely to be certified for 125 mph in the near future.

I had wanted to know why they put the restrictions in place too. It may have something to do with MARC frequently using mixed consists, like the MBTA. The single level Nippon-Sharyo/Sumitomos are only cleared for 110mph, and MARC frequently mixes them with bilevel even if its just the cab car or Quiet Car. In practice only a all bilevel train powered by an HHP-8 or AEM-7 would be able to run 125mph and I think that's only somewhere between north of Bowie State and BWI.

Unless the ALP-46's get upgraded to 125mph, the nothing will be able to power the ML bilevels at that speed, until NJT gets the 46a's.

realtype wrote:Unless the ALP-46's get upgraded to 125mph, the nothing will be able to power the ML bilevels at that speed, until NJT gets the 46a's.

Actually, the ALP-44 is capable of 125 mph, while the ALP-46 is geared for 100. But yeah, the intent is to run 'em at 125 once the ALP-46a's arrive.

The ALP 46's will be re geared as soon as the 46a's arrive.

At around the time the cars had their speed limit reduced, a MARC conductor told me that they found a problem with the wheels on one of the cars. It may be a coincidence, but it looks like a correlation to me.

Matt Johnson wrote:

realtype wrote:Unless the ALP-46's get upgraded to 125mph, the nothing will be able to power the ML bilevels at that speed, until NJT gets the 46a's.

Actually, the ALP-44 is capable of 125 mph, while the ALP-46 is geared for 100. But yeah, the intent is to run 'em at 125 once the ALP-46a's arrive.

Too bad they're gonna take the crown from MARC... To tell the truth aside from the unique ACSES set, I've never seen a ALP-44 powering a ML set. And up until recently, I never saw a diesel powering them either.

A bit off topic: Is it just me, but do the MARC cars seem to LOOK shorter in length than the LIRR cars? Looking at the specs found on Kawasaki site, http://www.kawasakirailcar.com/commuter.htm, the 2 cars are identical in over all length, so this has to be purely perception, but what causes this size preception - the different window sizes and/or placement of doors?

Also, as the MARC cars are about 1' taller and 1.5" wider than LIRR cars, could the MARC cars fit at NYP? Not saying any passenger agency that operates out of there is looking at them, let alone buy them, just if needed, could these MARC cars fit?

Thanks.

hrfcarl wrote:A bit off topic: Is it just me, but do the MARC cars seem to LOOK shorter in length than the LIRR cars? Looking at the specs found on Kawaski site, http://www.kawasakirailcar.com/commuter.htm, the 2 cars are identical in over all length, so this has to be purely perception, but what causes this size preception - the different window sizes and/or placement of doors?

Also, as the MARC cars are about 1' taller and 1.5" wider than LIRR cars, could the MARC cars fit at NYP? Not saying any passenger agency that operates out of there is looking at them, let alone buy them, just if needed, could these MARC cars fit?

Thanks.

Well, to me they look the same in length as the LIRR cars (as well as every other commuter car in this country). I think the perception comes from the fact that they are simply shorter, so they look longer (and wider). I'm pretty sure the MARC Kawasaskis cannot fit into NYP; the only bilevels that can access the station are the NJ Transit Bombardier bilevels (or "Multilevels") and the LIRR Kawasakis. Every year when Amtrak uses two sets of MARC passenger cars and an electric locomotive for Thanksgiving Extras between New York and WAS, the sets always consist of just the single level Nippon Sharyo/Sumitomo cars.

realtype wrote:

hrfcarl wrote:A bit off topic: Is it just me, but do the MARC cars seem to LOOK shorter in length than the LIRR cars? Looking at the specs found on Kawaski site, http://www.kawasakirailcar.com/commuter.htm, the 2 cars are identical in over all length, so this has to be purely perception, but what causes this size preception - the different window sizes and/or placement of doors?

Also, as the MARC cars are about 1' taller and 1.5" wider than LIRR cars, could the MARC cars fit at NYP? Not saying any passenger agency that operates out of there is looking at them, let alone buy them, just if needed, could these MARC cars fit?

Thanks.

Well, to me they look the same in length as the LIRR cars (as well as every other commuter car in this country). I think the perception comes from the fact that they are simply shorter, so they look longer (and wider). I'm pretty sure the MARC Kawasaskis cannot fit into NYP; the only bilevels that can access the station are the NJ Transit Bombardier bilevels (or "Multilevels") and the LIRR Kawasakis. Every year when Amtrak uses two sets of MARC passenger cars and an electric locomotive for Thanksgiving Extras between New York and WAS, the sets always consist of just the single level Nippon Sharyo/Sumitomo cars.

Nope, the MARC (and ex-VRE....and their MBTA cousins) can not fit into Penn Station, not through either set of tunnels.

IIRC, the Amtrak timetable prohibits the MBTA Kawasaki cars west of Cranston, and the MARC and ex-VRE Kawasakis are prohibited east of Bergen (last interlocking before the Hudson tubes).

What is taking so long to rebuild the Kawasaki's for MARC?

Also, is MARC going to get rid of all their gallery cars (and sell them back to Chicago)? They had said they were like spring chickens

davinp wrote:What is taking so long to rebuild the Kawasaki's for MARC?

Also, is MARC going to get rid of all their gallery cars (and sell them back to Chicago)? They had said they were like spring chickens

Two ex-VRE cab cars (7856 and 7858) have been in service for at least a month on the 874/877 trainset, whch wass previously all gallery cars. I posted photos of them on the previous page.

Coincidentally, today was my first time riding on one. Since 874 (6 car express from WV) arrived before my usual Frederick-DC train. The seats are pretty comfortbale--more so than the single levels, but less comfortable than MARC's original K-cars, and waaay more comfortable than the ancient gallery cars. The seats remind me of the ones in the LIRR's M7's and Kawasaki bilevels, but not as contoured.

The gallery cars were spring "chickens" compared to the MARC I cars they replaced, which were 50's era cars not intended for commuter service. I dont know where the cars are going to go, but the MTA said that they were going to be replaced by the VRE cars