Maine Central Steam Locomotive #470 Discussion

The "Committee" last appeared at the Brewer Model Train Show, selling doo-dads, pins, embroidered emblems and refrigerator magnets with impressions of the 470 on them. They were also auctioning a framed photo of the Pacific in her current condition. I was recognized by a woman at the booth and she said she wanted to talk with me. I asked her to please talk to the City Engineer and Mayor first, because I not welcomed to be part of the restoration. I also informed her that after the initial meeting in September, 2004, I had put together (along with several other serious railorad historians) a file folder full of grants and foundation proposal to immediatly secure funding for cosmetic restoration and a building to protect the old engine.

As of this date, I have heard nothing, and although my name has been removed from the promotional signs and handouts, my quotes are still used. What is this "Committee" doing, and how far into the black they are remains a mystery. My last communication with Greg Brown was in November of 2004. At that time, he ranted at length about pulling the locomotive off display and firing her right up. He then went on to tell me he had close ties to Guilford, and they would help. Obviously, this man has not clue #1.

If the Mayor's office contacts me and disbands the current "Committee", and relieves Greg Brown of his connection to the project, I would gladly come back into the project as Director, assuming I can put together a new committee with accurately informed members who will regularly meet and garner the financial support required to really save the 470.

News article from today's Morning Sentinel:

WATERVILLE -- Friends of the 470 took a step closer Monday night to securing a shelter for the last Maine Central Railroad steam locomotive to ride the rails.

Read the full article at:

http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/n ... 4635.shtml

It's a political year and the calendar says this is time to make noise. The proposal says $750,000, which was the figure I had originally brought forward to enclose the locomotive in a climate controlled museum building. My first choice was $250,000 to put it under a weather shed with chain link fence from below ground to eaves, and lighting under the roof. It is not uncertain that for $1,000,000, the locomotive could be made to run again, albeit with no tracks to operate upon. After hearing what an incompetant boob the city engineer is, I would not expect much in terms of results. The only thing full off hot vapors is Greg Brown.

More 470 news from the Sentinel:

WATERVILLE -- Councilor Charles "Fred" Stubbert Jr. puts the cost of restoring and building a shelter for the old 470 steam engine at $1.8 million.

Stubbert plans to update the City Council on the project to save the city-owned locomotive from further deterioration at tonight's meeting, which is scheduled to start at 7 in City Council chambers.

Read the full article at:

http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/n ... 93937.html

For $1,800,000 dollars, I'd prefer sending it to the Strasburg or Ohio Central, and have her rebuilt as an operable locomotive. What the Hell are they thinking in Waterville?

Anytime people with a clue as to what a project like this involves, try to mix in with local special interest politics that can reap a harvest in pay-offs , buy spending hundreds of Thousands of $$ doing studies, proposals, how bout this , etc. only to get a good chunk off free cash in their pocket. You,ve got trouble. It happens in every town and city. A select few , the ones who could not tell the difference between a staybolt and a muffler clamp are in charge of everything ASS-CLOWNS will if allowed to do so will turn the #470 into worthless scrap. By the time finger pointing is done ... you get the picture. There is more to this than pouring water in through a hole in the top, making a big fire inside the firebox , old tires burn hot and make black smoke too . They will ask you where the steering wheel is, then you know what you are up against.
They will put only people that they know that they can control and will look the other way, on these committies.
This stuff requires you to make up documents and collect signatures from registered voters , hundreds and hundreds of them, from all parts of the City. wording of what the patition drive is for is critical.
I live in a small town 20 miles south of boston and am a Town Meeting Member, I have some experience with this kind of thing and would like to help your group get a handle on stopping know it all Officals back into their cages . Whoever is being shut out and off, i,d like to hear from you, not a hundred folks , i,m sure you have a Pro-restoration Group and a spokesman . E-Mail me at the following..

[email protected] Thank You.

John Smythe 470 RR Club #501 Project Mechanic

Richard Glueck wrote:The "Committee" last appeared at the Brewer Model Train Show, selling doo-dads, pins, embroidered emblems and refrigerator magnets with impressions of the 470 on them. They were also auctioning a framed photo of the Pacific in her current condition. I was recognized by a woman at the booth and she said she wanted to talk with me. I asked her to please talk to the City Engineer and Mayor first, because I not welcomed to be part of the restoration. I also informed her that after the initial meeting in September, 2004, I had put together (along with several other serious railorad historians) a file folder full of grants and foundation proposal to immediatly secure funding for cosmetic restoration and a building to protect the old engine.

As of this date, I have heard nothing, and although my name has been removed from the promotional signs and handouts, my quotes are still used. What is this "Committee" doing, and how far into the black they are remains a mystery. My last communication with Greg Brown was in November of 2004. At that time, he ranted at length about pulling the locomotive off display and firing her right up. He then went on to tell me he had close ties to Guilford, and they would help. Obviously, this man has not clue #1.

If the Mayor's office contacts me and disbands the current "Committee", and relieves Greg Brown of his connection to the project, I would gladly come back into the project as Director, assuming I can put together a new committee with accurately informed members who will regularly meet and garner the financial support required to really save the 470.

Guilford Railroad knows nothing about Steam Locomotives , except they won,t move them over any of their lines if they have Friction Bearings.
If a Mr G. Brown thinks he will just fire her right up, he most likely will succeed if he undertakes such a stunt. Have FIRE INSURANCE? See my entry below, fill me in with an E-MAIL. If Public $$ is being used than the public HAS THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD!! PERIOD!!! You need a Petition Signature Collection Drive. See Below my e-mail address. Thanks


[email protected]

i dont know if you guys have seen this but take a look http://www.ci.waterville.me.us/470/470.htm

I recently had the opportunity to meet with one of the members of this group, a man whose locomotive savvy I much respect. No, not the city engineer! This was the first contact I've had with a member of the group since the original meeting, and I must say, he was intelligent, thoughtful, and clear in his estimate of the work required to get the old locomotive into some kind of cosmetic shape. Now honestly, I still disagree with the estimate to do a cosmetic restoration, but at least this person has his feet firmly planted on the ground, and harbors no illusions of what awaits a well done cosmetic restoration. I honestly believe that for $1.2 million, the locomotive should be sent to an outfit like Ohio Central and rebuilt for operation, not simply to cosmetically restore it. At that point, the city could lease/lend it to Maine and Eastern, or another tourist operation.

Despite our minor disagreement on that point, I would say that perhaps the "Friends of 470" may have a chance of saving the locomotive. SHould those people who are locomotive schooled leave the group, the results will be fatal to the engine. I wish them my whole-hearted best wishes, and pray the politicians leave them alone to do their intended job. Such good men are hard to find.

Would there be a chance of a Master Mechanic, as in myself ,being allowed an oppertunity to examine the MEC#470 and providing some easy to understand report on costs involved with a complete restoration/return to operation cost estimates. Looking at photographs and seeing in person may shed some different light on this project. I know of David Alpert and his love of this fine Steam Locomotive. The price is FREE. I have never seen the MEC#470 and would enjoy talking to those who would like to see her restored and run again. Can this be arranged? Thank You.

I grew up in Fairfield Maine, and spent alot of time in the Waterville area. One of our favorite hang-outs was by the Waterville train yards, they had this old locamotive on display overlooking the road. Anyone know what the name of that train was?

jrheavymetal wrote:I grew up in Fairfield Maine, and spent alot of time in the Waterville area. One of our favorite hang-outs was by the Waterville train yards, they had this old locamotive on display overlooking the road. Anyone know what the name of that train was?

Look up at the stickies for a bit of info. But:

Maine Central 470
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On June 13, 1954, Maine Central 4-6-2 no. 470 had the distinction of pulling the last scheduled steam passenger train on the Maine Central. Today, she is one of only three surviving MEC steam locomotives, and the only one still in Maine, displayed in a city park next to the railroad yard in Waterville. Like many park engines, a harsh climate and years of deferred maintenance have not been kind to the 470, but a new group, the Friends of the 470 has recently formed to cosmetically restore this handsome Pacific.

Thanks, I had thought it was called the 470. A friend of ours, James (Jim) Doody had written a song about it way back in the 70's and the song got alot of airplay at the time. I believe the song may have been called the old 470, or something like that. I had a copy of the 45 record way back then, but I don't have it anymore.

What is the status of the 470? I know there were talks back in 2004, about a cosmetic restoration the city of Waterville was looking into but that fell off the raidar.