M7

I was wondering if there have been any posts about the new trains from a commuter stand point on the seating and relative comfort or should I say lack there of on the new trains.
I dont remember seeing any post on this in the old forums and figured I could get some opinions on here.
Now Im not talking about asthetics or upgrades mechanically from the engineer/conductor points of view, Im talking form the rider perspective.
These new trains flat out suck ! The seating has to be worse off than the older trains by 2 inches at least. Who did they have in mind when making these new seats ? Children ? Certainly not full grown adults.
2 normal sized men can barely sit next to each other comfortably, and forget about when someone of a little more heft tries to sqeeze in.
Does anybody else see where I am coming from with the new trains and the lack of space ?

Aside the full width cab & cup holder for engineer IMHO the 7's represent huge step backward in design. They ride hard, are overweight (140,000 lbs per car), and seat less passengers. Granted some of these mandates were FRA and ADA regulations but their implementation are anything but sane. Placing the toilet mid-car seems moronic, and that even with air suspension they ride no better than an M1/3 with recut wheels. When those wheels go square, my office shakes like an earthquake when one of thos things go by. Hate to be on a track crew with those bankvaults rolling around.

Would an M1/3 shell design fitted with ac propulsion, modern climate contols similar to the 7's been better?

I also miss the NYS seal. For you patriot's out there who like to drape flags over everything, I like the pleasant reminder of where the money came from to buy this crap. It also has the functional purpose of hiding the dirt that seems to subside with LI commuters. What ever happened to civic pride?

Regards,

Eric

I'm actually glad they don't have the state seal. Hell, i couldn't even get away from it on the Cape Cod Central(for those who don't know, they use old LIRR worlds fair coaches).

As far as seating goes, they made a BIG mistake. I think they shoulda taken the time the figure out a way to make bi-level MUs or something like that instead of this crap.

Hi,

Is the MTA planning on phasing in an M7 only fleet in the future?

I agree TD, the seats are narrower that the M-1/3 and you can't fit two normal sized men comfortably in the two-seater. Also you often see only two people sitting in the three-seater - even on crowded trains - people would rather stand than be that cramped for the entire trip.

In case anybody's counting, the highest numbered pair of M7's I've seen in revenue service is 7243-44. If the cars are being numbered consecutively, that means that in a fleet of 944 electric cars, approx. one train in four is now an M7.

Headend view,

I'm sure that's close.
I'll get the counts when I go back to the shop tomorrow, or Tuesday if I forget.


RC '75,

At present, there are 678 M-7s funded. That is likely to be it for awhile.
The LIRR is overhauling and keeping all 172 M-3 cars that are left (out of 174 originally.) You will see a rectangular converter/inverter box on the even numbered overhauled cars, where the Motor Alternator used to be, forward of the air conditioning unit. Eventually you will see this on all the M-3s.
There are also 132 M-1 cars that were overhauled several years ago. Those are the cars with the new, "improved" bathrooms, amongst many other new and rebuilt parts and systems. You will also see the converter/inverter box on these "A" cars where the M/A used to be.

That makes 982 electric cars, when all M-7s are here and all non-overhauled M-1s are gone.
By contrast, the M-1/M-3 fleet totaled 944 cars. (minus writeoffs.)
Remember, there are less seats in the M-7 cars, though.

In several years, as the legacy cars age, and East Side Access completion nears, the LIRR will have to decide whether they will go back to the till for more M-7s, or M-8s, or whatever. My guess would be a modified M-7, called an M-8. (Unless the M-7 turns out to be a dismal failure. Then it's obviously back to square one.)
The LIRR will definitely need more electric cars at that time.
I've heard estimates of a 1300 EMU car fleet needed with ESA.

Tom

There will be M-8's but they will be for New Haven line. a proposal by Bombardier for M-7's with a Centercar for catenary gear is proposed. the order will be for at least 400 cars.
any third rail cars only would be numbered in odd numbers.

125,000 lbs per car for the M-7s. The C-3 cars are about 150,000. The M-1s are about 95,000lbs

Dutchrailnut,

oops...okay...M-9 maybe??

To paraphrase Dr. Daystrom from Star Trek-The Ultimate Computer, "The M-1 through M-8 were not entirely successful"

To paraphrase Dr. Daystrom from Star Trek-The Ultimate Computer, "The M-1 through M-8 were not entirely successful"

The M5 was really bad!

The M-5 was designed but vetoed by LIRR. they were single M3 type cars with cab at each side AC propulsion and ment as replacement for ACMU's
they would have been compatible with M-1 and M-3.

btw M-1 is 92 000Lbs for each car
M3 is 110,630 Acar & 107,690 for B car
ACMU is 115,300 Lbs
M2 is 126,000 A car & 129,000 B car
M4 is 128,000 A car & 124,600 B car the D car is 129,500 Lbs

The M-5 program was likely scrapped because the LIRR couldn't have their trains firing Photon Torpedoes at everything in sight.
We also don't want our engineers becoming "Captain Dunsels."

Okay...I know...enough of that.

Head-end view,

Your numbers were real close.
LIRR intranet shows, as of March 27, 2004:
M-7 = 248
M-3 = 172
M-1 = 532
DE30= 23
DM30= 23
C3= 134

N340SG: Thanks for those updated numbers. At least for now, we'll have a completely accurate picture, though obviously the figures will be changing with each passing month.