M1/M3 & M7 cars in service.

How many M1 cars are still in service & how many of them have been scrapped.

In addition, how many M3 & M7 cars are in service.

That's a good question. Maybe N340SG may know, since a few of the M1's are starting to be replaced with the Type 7s which of course offer no head end view

Here is a link to an existing thread on this subject:
http://64.78.30.219/forums/viewtopic.ph ... c1f607bffc

To all,

Let me get some new numbers today or tomorrow for you. M-7s on roster should be at least in the 360s. I rode on 7357 just yesterday. The new seats smelled nice, although it's probably some toxic smell that took a year off my life!!
You can rest assured that a like number of M-1s are retired as the M-7s arrive. I'm sure the LIRR would like nothing more than to keep some extra M-1s around in the yards for Protects, but there is no room for them, and a larger fleet would require more personnel to clean, 2b, and PI them. ($$$)

Tom

How does the RR decide which M1's to scrap. There are still some low number ones running around.

BobLI,
I believe car's with the worst MDBF's are removed from the fleet, along with car's (non-overhauled M1's) approaching major service checks.

340SierraGolf can confirm.

-Tom

My next-door neighbor hated the M-7's because of the narrower seats. But now in the cold, dark winter she's actually starting to prefer them because of the lights not flickering when the train goes thru crossovers, etc. She says they still sway too much though, especially going thru the hi-speed crossovers at Queens interlocking.

Guys,

The LIRR selects M-1 cars for decommissioning based primarily on when 3 year air brake is due. They have figured that with the cost of rebuilt parts and labor, the cost of performing 3 year air brake is considerable.
Take 9001 and 9002, for example. The problems that cropped up would have been easily repaired at any time in the last 30 years. But, when they saw it was due for 3 year air brake in 42 days from when those problems arose, they said to heck with fixing it...scrap it now. It's going scrap in 42 days, anyway.
Now, there are a lot of rumors circulating, including that the highest numbered M-1s will be saved....forget all the rumors. Consider that 755/756; 763/764; and the highest numbered M-1s, 769/770 have already been canned. The overhauled M-1s will be saved. Their numbers run the gamut, as the worst cars were selected for overhaul. That may have seemed to be a sensible decision at the time, but in retrospect, one has to wonder....If the RR pretty much knew the M-7s were coming, shouldn't they have selected the best M-1s to overhaul, and get rid of the crappy ones?
All M-3s will also remain in service for the forseeable future. There are only 678 M-7s coming (until if/when more funding arises in the capital budgets pending or of the future). They absolutely cannot replace all legacy cars, unless our ridership goes down 33% with the fare hikes.

Tom

Guys,

The LIRR Intranet shows EMU fleet counts as of Jan. 12 as:

M-7 = 348
M-3 = 172
M-1 = 444

Now, I know that doesn't appear to make sense, as I personally rode in 7357 this week, and cars in the 360s have been spotted.
The numbers have occasionally gotten out of order due to major modifications at manufacturing level and such.
The RR may also be running burn-in trains of 8 to 10 cars, with all 8 or 10 cars being put on the roster at the same moment, when finished with burn-in. The figure could jump by as much as 10 cars in one day, then.
Just figure the numbers are approximately correct.

Tom

N340SG wrote:Guys,

The overhauled M-1s will be saved. Their numbers run the gamut, as the worst cars were selected for overhaul. That may have seemed to be a sensible decision at the time, but in retrospect, one has to wonder....If the RR pretty much knew the M-7s were coming, shouldn't they have selected the best M-1s to overhaul, and get rid of the crappy ones?

Tom

Tom , please tell me where the "good" ones are?? Every single one of them that I have seen or have operated over the past month has been total complete junk!! They are overhauled as far as what...that crappy "new and improved" ASC system and the horrendous bathrooms that don't even let you open the door to get in it!! All of these things should be junked, or, for the ones they do decide to keep, give them a nice overhaul (we both know the shop guys can do it quite respectably) and totally clean them up inside and out and make them somewhat more pleasant to ride in and operate.

Bob,

If you are speaking of only the overhauled M-1s, then that's my point also. In many of those cars, the rest of the car is falling apart around the overhauled items. It might have been wiser to overhaul some of the better M-1 cars, instead of the worst.
If you are saying all 700+ M-1 cars were all atrocious, I would not necessarily agree with that. There's no rhyme or reason to it number-wise, but some cars were/are definitely in better shape than others.

You will not get an arguement from me as far as the bathrooms in the overhaul cars are concerned. I say put the damn blue water simple operation toilet back in...just actually service the things once in a while.
Let's all agree that the new toilets in the M-1s and M-7s suck, literally and figuratively. (And they want to overhaul the M-3s with the same dismal failures...let's hope that overhaul phase is cut from the budget.)

I know the M-1 Microcab ATCs were shutting down when the temperature in the box got too warm. They're not supposed to be doing that any longer.
I'd be interested to know what the lingering issues are. Is it just you don't like the way they function, or are you getting actual failures? We're not getting a lot of failures at West Side, other than having to recalibrate pickup amps at times, so I'm definitely interested as to what failures you're getting on the road.

In any event, don't shoot the workers. We installed what they gave us. The RR initially wanted to outsource the M-1 overhaul, because it was felt that M of E would "screw it up". We kept it on the property, and did what had to be done. People got promotions off that program who never should have, because we made them look good. But that's O.K. And nearly everyone who's reading this is nodding their head that the same is true at their job.
We (the workers) also threw in a couple of suggestions on the fly, that were actually listened to and implemented. Such as my [adamant] suggestion of rewiring the wheel slip system speed sensor wiring from the trucks to the panel, that the insulation was falling off of, causing grounds.

Tom

Bob,

I also agree with you that more should have been done topside and in other places on the overhaul cars. Everything that was done, except the windows, seat replacement, and toilet, is hidden. The seats and windows didn't look new for very long, and the toilets...well...you don't want to look at, or smell.
I better not get into what (IMHO) items money was wasted on.
There are some things I would have liked to see overhauled for reliability, however. How about the Master Controller, for starters. 30 years of wear, as well as dust, water, coffee, smoke, cigarette ashes (from when smoking was allowed...not today), and other goo finding their way into the mechanism and electric switches, and the Master Controller assembly has never been refurbished in any of the cars. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. Gee, it only generates all your trainlines and P-wire...it's not important to maintain it.

M-7 = 348
M-3 = 172
M-1 = 444

Alrighty, thanks for the latest update.