Lower Level Issues

The other day I noticed that tracks 116 and 117 continue beyond the stairwell, but are gated. It also says "5 Car Limit".

Where do the tracks go beyond the gate? Why are they gated? Why is there a five car limit?

These tracks connected to the inside Lower Level Loop. The last passenger equipment which could utilize this loop were the original NYC 72' heavyweight MU's which were in service into the 1970's.

Since then, only M/W track equipment could use the Inside Loop.

After some incidents in which the M-series MU's went to far into the loop, the trackage has been removed from service.

I once arrived on track 116. It was the #1775 (an afternoon through train from New Canaan) which was normally 5 cars but was 4 cars that day. Besides that, I've never even seen track 116 used for revenue service, although lately they've been sending Shoreliners down to that track for maintenance.

Track 117 is no longer even USABLE for revenue service, as the end of the platform was covered over and some kind of office trailer is now there. Supposably the end 117's circuit is still in use for mid day yard storage. A similar occurance happened at track 113, yet this track still has a sign and marquee in the lower level!

Thank you.

Thank you.

shlustig wrote:These tracks connected to the inside Lower Level Loop. The last passenger equipment which could utilize this loop were the original NYC 72' heavyweight MU's which were in service into the 1970's.

Since then, only M/W track equipment could use the Inside Loop.

After some incidents in which the M-series MU's went to far into the loop, the trackage has been removed from service.

How far south does the Lower Level Loop extend?

Could it be remodeled into a passageway for walking down to the 37th-38th street area? That would be a nice, comfortable journey on sleety winter days, just like the new north end access points are at GCT.

It only reaches as far as a few feet from the Timesquare/GCT Shuttle on upper loop, the lower loop is right under it.

Perhaps Dutch can verify, but IIRC, this part of the Outside Lower Level Loop had a non-support bearing wall section which was intended to serve as a direct connection with the subway trackage close to the shuttle station. The trackage was never actually constructed.

Thanks, shlustig and dutch.

My brother in law worked at 40th and Park for several years, and there was always talk of unused subway and train tunnels, boarded off walkways, etc

Guess that goes into the urban legend drawer

I have heard stories of the suposed breakaway wall near the Lexington Ave subway but have ot been able to verify that it actually exist or existed.
There is no physical evidence such as different wall construction or so or even track or roadbed differences.

DutchRailnut wrote:I have heard stories of the suposed breakaway wall near the Lexington Ave subway but have ot been able to verify that it actually exist or existed.
There is no physical evidence such as different wall construction or so or even track or roadbed differences.

There is a space allowance on the east side of GCT for a (proposed) Hudson & Manhattan tube line extension from 33rd street. That was designed into the original layout underground. My understanding is the Lexington Ave subway was buried an additional 50 feet down to allow for H&M to fit in between.

When the sixth avenue subway was expanded into what had been the alignment reserved for H&M from Herald Square to 41st street, the chances of H&M ever reaching GCT ended.

Did you hear about that or did you see it ??
I walked the lower loop several times and no evidence exist.

DutchRailnut wrote:Did you hear about that or did you see it ??
I walked the lower loop several times and no evidence exist.

Dutch, I don't know if that qx is directed to me, or not.

There are several works which mention the aborted pre-1910 plans for H&M to be eventually extended to the GCT area. I'm not aware any plans existed to connect H&M to either GCT loop.

There isn't nor was there ever, a "breakaway wall." What has led to this "urban legend" is the simple reality that, as the terminal trackage was constructed, there is in fact only a wall under the terminal --- or under 42nd St., I forget which --- separating the terminal trackage from the IRT line.

Don't forget that the original 1904 IRT line came up under 4th Avenue, turned west under 42nd St [the present day shuttle line], then north under Broadway. When the Fourth Ave. - Lexington Ave. line as we know it today was constructed as the through routing there were some track reconfigurations and eliminations to the original routing [the one that became the shuttle] that did indeed result in some "unused tunnels." If you ride those subway routes you have no doubt walked though one! If, as you leave the shuttle at the GCT end, you do not go up the stairs to the terminal but instead take the walkway that leads you directly to the Lexington Ave. line, you are walking right through one of them. AND --- and you walk that walk, the wall on your left is the wall that separates you from the CGT Loop tracks.

Writings about the railroad and GCT have been known to point out that it would be theoretically possible for a train coming into GCT to continue downtown using the IRT tracks, if that wall were "broken down." Of course, "theoretically" is a very long way from doing it!!!! I imagine these statements have gotten inflated into the tales of "breakaway walls, and so on.

Lackawanna484 wrote:Thanks, shlustig and dutch.

My brother in law worked at 40th and Park for several years, and there was always talk of unused subway and train tunnels, boarded off walkways, etc

Guess that goes into the urban legend drawer

Not all is legend.
Abandoned Stations
and
Abandoned NYC Subway Stations